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It seems in a lot of areas in my life, people are arguing with each other on what the ultimate truth of life is. They all come from different view points and experiences, all presenting convincing arguments and reasons as to why they are right. I'm not saying it's wrong to search for meaning in life or to try and find ways to make life more pleasant. What I feel like is life is something we are always learning more of and experiencing more of constantly. It's forever changing and flowing with us. I feel the 'ultimate truth' of life is irrevelant. It seems that every individual has a completely different view and set of beliefs to life, and their life usually seems to confirm that for them. Sometimes we call others crazy because we don't understand them, but they do understand themselves. They do understand what they believe and why they believe it. I watched the movie Inception recently. WARNING, MOVIE SPOILERS AHEAD! Don't read further if you haven't seen it. :) In Inception, people can enter into each others dreams using machines. In the beginning the characters Cobb and Arthur are using this to try and "extract" information from another person's mind. To do this, they create environments and situations that appear real so the dreamer doesn't realize he is simply in a dream. They can also go within "a dream in a dream", or even "a dream within a dream, within another dream." This represents going deeper and deeper into your own mind. Going too far within the dreams, or dying within a dream while they are under heavy sedation, will cause their minds to drop into limbo instead of "waking up." Limbo is described as an unconstructed dream space of raw infinite subconcious, where many people can easily lose themselves and their grip on reality. Because it is easy for a dreamer to lose themselves in their dreams, and not be able to distinguish between a dream and reality, each person carries around what they call a totem. A totem is a small, unique object that the dreamer can use to see whether or not he is actually dreaming. Cobb, the main character, carries this totem:
In one scene close to the beginning of the film, Cobb is sitting down holding a gun, spinning his totem on the table. He watches closely until the totem falls, then relaxes. What happens is, he uses the totem to test whether or not he's dreaming. If the totem were to spin endlessly, he would have known he was dreaming, and was proceeding to shoot himself if this had been true. By killing himself in the dream, he would have woken up to reality. Now at the end of the film, Cobb gets very deep into the dream world and ends up in limbo. You can't tell at the end of the film whether or not he is still dreaming or has woken up. The very last scene, Cobb finally is home where is children are, and he walks to the table, spinning the totem to test if what is happening is really real. Then, he hears the voices of his children and turns to them, ignoring the totem. The screen pans to the totem, which is still spinning, wobbles slightly, then abruptly cuts to the credits. So, there's no way to know whether the totem was going to fall or whether it was going to continue to spin endlessly. But, it doesn't matter. Cobb no longer cares whether or not what is happening is a dream or reality. He doesn't care what the totem says anymore. For the majority of the movie, it's hard to tell what is real and what isn't, and whether or not it was all just a dream of Cobbs. Cobb questions his reality and the dreams he experiences throughout the film, never really knowing what is true and what isn't. This really resonated with me. The "ultimate truth" didn't matter anymore. So, I want to hear your thoughts... do you think it is important that we know what the ultimate truth of life is?
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Inception is a great movie - and one that I've thought about alot since first seeing it since it raises many deep metaphysical issues but brilliantly disguises them in the form of a mainstream adventure/thriller film. Having said that, I still meet people who have no idea what the film is about. One person told me they actually gave up watching half-way through because the whole concept was just too silly and absurd to them..."it wasn't real", they said :) Anyway, back to your question...I think the entire movie hinges on the idea that there is something "real" about reality. If you take this single premise away and make reality just like any of the dreams then the story doesn't work. In that case, any character could just choose whatever reality they liked and just stay there, or if they didn't like it, they could just kill themselves and try the "next one up" (whatever that happens to be)...and then the "suicide" of Cobb's wife loses its powerful effect on the mental state of Cobb because it just becomes another choice for her instead of the loss of her "real" life. And isn't this idea exactly what many of the conflicts regarding spirituality, philosophy and religion are about in our world? We have certain groups of people claiming their reality is more "real" than the realities of others, as though the others are trapped in meaningless dream realities. And so these groups of people deem it important that others conform to the rules of their "real" reality. And if people don't conform to their "real" realities, and the rules of those realities, they find ways to make them conform. But when one accepts that there is no "real" reality, all of the need to make others conform to what you think is true vanishes in an instant because you know within yourself that your reality is no more valid than anyone else's....it's just a personal choice. As you say, at the end of the movie, Cobb really doesn't care whether he is in a dream reality or a "real" reality because he's more interested in being back with his kids. The writer/director of Inception, Christopher Nolan, seems to suggest in interviews that the final scene with that wobbling totem is deliberately ambiguous and that the ambiguity was what the message of the movie was. In the end, Cobb doesn't care whether he is dreaming or not because he's come to the realization that all he wants from his life now is to enjoy the experience of being back home with his kids even if it isn't "real". And I think that is a message we can incorpoate into our own lives also... In the end, the ultimate truth doesn't matter because we may never know whether we are in a real reality or not. So the only thing that matters is that we fully enjoy our "experience" of whatever reality we happen to find ourselves in right now. 2
@Stingray No need for me to answer this question - there is no way I could top your answer. Yup, that is precisely the conclusion I have come to after wrapping my head around alternate realities and multidimensional beings etc, I just decided that as I only "appear" to be aware of this one life I might as well just make the best of it.
(27 Sep '12, 07:06)
Catherine
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I thought the ending was that it was the dream that Cobb's father in law was using to get Cobb to save his wife, but he stayed there instead.
(27 Sep '12, 08:37)
Fairy Princess
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@Stingray Great answer! I've always believed that there is truth in all beliefs, but I think I understand this idea more clearly now. Cobb's "dream" realities are no less real than his waking reality. It's all real but in a different form of real. And the last part of your answer is true- we may never know if we are in a "real" reality or not. An example from the movie, Fischer was caught in the dream world but was completely unaware he was asleep. He had no idea of extraction or inception.
(27 Sep '12, 13:03)
LapisLazuli
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"Well, dreams they feel real while your in them right? It's only when we wake up that we realize something was actually strange." Cobb
(27 Sep '12, 13:04)
LapisLazuli
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Absolutely not. It is not important at all. This life and all the universe are made as a system. It is a system for us to be plugged in so that we can experience what we wish to do in our own existence. Understanding this is essential. We are all one. Everyone of us are connected. We are also the only perspective and point of view in our existence unless we choose to connect to the rest. We are the greatest entities in our own existence. We create and co create all things. The other entities are a part of u. They are also separate in their own existence. Because we are in our singular perspective, we are the main creators of our own existence. Now if we are the main creator of our existence, and all others are equal outside of our existence, this makes u see that they create just as u do, but in their OWN existence. This is complex and simple at the same time. If you can understand what I wrote, then u already know we each have our own separate universe and we are the master of it. I needed to give u this to explain that we are co creating with others, and even if we do this we are living a very separate existence. Treb explained that if two people sit in one room with same ideas and experiences, they live very very different truths. We each , as creators of our universe have our own truths. These truths are what gives us the very unique perspectives, experiences and truths we have in life. So with all this being said, I guess my point is that there is NO ultimate truth. love n light rob […] if you follow your heart, your heart is connected directly to your higher self and soul. And your soul knows better than anyone, for you. It knows better than the wisest, or longest living entity in this universe. Because it IS you, it is part of you and it is what you need. So follow the heart and you will never be lead wrong. - Treb Bor yit-NE sorry writen so confusing lol
(27 Sep '12, 21:56)
TReb Bor yit-NE
1
"We are also the only perspective and point of view in our existance unless we choose to connect to the rest." I don't know what it is, but something about this sentence really strikes a cord with me. I think it makes me feel powerful. I thought about the "ultimate truth" for awhile, and I've fallen onto this conclusion, "there is no ultimate truth." :) Thank you:)
(27 Sep '12, 22:38)
LapisLazuli
2
If anything can be called the "Ultimate Truth" it is exactly the point that Rob/Treb is making here.
(28 Sep '12, 15:46)
The Traveller
@LapisLazuli , it is what we can coclude, but ONLY when we dig deep, for u to have reached this as well proves that u have dug deep enuff to see that this no ultimate truth is the only ultamate truth lol Just as @The Traveller said. And for u traveller, i have spent many days and weeks of JUST thinking of this myself, and i find that the greatness in the ideas here are as great as us finding the ideas. I am glad it was understandible. I worried it woul not come across so "elegantly". :-) love :)
(28 Sep '12, 17:37)
TReb Bor yit-NE
Oh, yes, I think I've dug pretty deep before... and will probably keep digging. I have moments where I just think on these things for hours. So to me this question is sort of a reminder to myself to let things go once in awhile (or frequently) and enjoy what's going on, instead of trying to understand it all the time (or prove it to someone else). :)
(28 Sep '12, 23:45)
LapisLazuli
I'm with you on this one Rob...only when we realize that 'we don't know' do we come close to the Truth ( There really is no " Ultimate Truth" that can be grasped by the human mind ). I echo Traveller's comment above :)
(29 Sep '12, 22:55)
Michaela
(01 Oct '12, 22:20)
TReb Bor yit-NE
Great to see these old one come back round
(10 Jun '13, 07:48)
TReb Bor yit-NE
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"Forever, physical humans are saying, “give me the truth, give me the truth.” And we say, there are all kinds of truths. Choose the truths that serve you. Now, there are a lot of people that would feel great discomfort with that. But the thing that we want you to hear about it is: there is a truth of cancer, and there is a truth of wellness. Which truth serves you? You can activate either of them within you, and make it your truth. Truths are created; they aren't static. They aren't conditions that exist that then it is your obligation to identify and catalog. You are the creator of your truths—and what you are living is your truth." ~Abraham-Hicks™ (Facebook) Condensed versions of the daily quote. September 18 via HootSuite
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This answer is marked "community wiki".
grace, yes we live with our relative truths but that does not excuse a personal belief that is off the mark. what if it not be what serves us, as an individual, that the truth is all about
(30 Sep '12, 21:27)
fred
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of course truth is important with out truth you would not exist,with out truth you could not have anny knowledge because knowledge is what you know to be true,what is true and what is false? when something does not really exist it is false and eventually it loose its meaning and disapper.when you take out the false what is leaft is truth. and even if someone create false thing their is always some truth about the false things he has created.look at science they use telescope and microscope to seek the outward truth from one extreme to the other.the word is truth,it is writen in the bible,you are made in is image in the image of the spirit of truth what they seek outward is what they are inward.Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you. When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty." Jesus saw some babies nursing. He said to his disciples, "These nursing babies are like those who enter the (Father's) kingdom." They said to him, "Then shall we enter the (Father's) kingdom as babies?" Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]." Jesus said, "Why have you come out to the countryside? To see a reed shaken by the wind? And to see a person dressed in soft clothes, [like your] rulers and your powerful ones? They are dressed in soft clothes, and they cannot understand truth." 1
Is the truth itself important, or is knowing it important? Is it something completely different than what we imagine? Is it an idea or is it a feeling? Is it something that we cannot perceive with our senses? Is it correct to say that the idea that something is incorrect doesn't exist, that everything is true, even if it can appear 'fake'? That truth manifests itself in multiple forms, which to us seems to create paradoxes, because we try to limit what the truth can be? Thank you WT :)
(29 Sep '12, 13:15)
LapisLazuli
1
whatever we put to thought forms does exist, sent out and will return home. and we have a special character in free will that when utilized in sincronization with the plan of Creation pushes us forward on the path to who we really are
(29 Sep '12, 19:35)
fred
1
The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”
(30 Sep '12, 17:10)
white tiger
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it is important to know the truth yet most of us fall awry, You always get me thinking... :) Sometimes we try too hard to find the truth, trying to find a quick fix to all our problems, but this ends up pushing us farther away from it. ? :)
(27 Sep '12, 22:43)
LapisLazuli
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lapislazuli, it does not happen over night. do what seems best for now but take time later to reflect on what did not sit right. there is a reason we have a concsience and intuition. today, in our mainline beliefs, it is all about what is wanted now. and that is not the truth of being a human being
(28 Sep '12, 14:51)
fred
I'm at a place where my 'problems' are just sort of there. I'm not so much looking for an answer to them. I've gotten to this place where I don't even care if some things ever sort themselves out. So, I think that's where my question is coming from. I got to a point where I really am not concerned as to what is going on; so I'm starting to feel the 'truth' is irrevelant, or the 'truth' is a completely different concept that what the mainstream idea of it is.
(28 Sep '12, 23:42)
LapisLazuli
the latter was the point. what if there was an equal armed cross for every thought we entertain. how much time do you have, where are your values
(29 Sep '12, 19:10)
fred
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I have died in my dreams plenty of times. It is just the end of that dream similar to the end of a story book. I do remember a dream that I had my throat cut and I died and I got mad seeing that and even in the dream said, "This sucks!" I got mad and decided to redo that part of my dream, I rewound the dream and played it forwards and than beat the last guy that killed me the first time. As far as not being able to tell if you are dreaming or awake, awake is always easy to tell that is a no-brainer. However within dreams we can forget we are dreaming and get too involved with what is going on sort of steered by the dream itself even though we are making it up by our expectations. As for truth, I believe Jesus is the truth and so anything negative is illusionary and Jesus conquered it for me, I just have to accept the gift. Whenever things start going off kilter I just need to remember Jesus handled this for me, and I am back to The Kingdom Mind. 1
I died in a dream a long time ago. Probably the coolest dream I ever had. I immediately went into some other dimensional type world. I could go anywhere and do anything. I saw people I loved. For fun, we'd go into the 'living world' and 'play pranks' on the living. We sat around and talked about our lives and how we died. But it was sort of like starting a new story. :) Thanks
(29 Sep '12, 13:18)
LapisLazuli
1
Jesus tried to show us how to reverse our spiritual devolution to an evolution. re-emphasizing where we were inserted into the plan of Creation and our responsibility to it. the human world was heading backwards and there needed to be intercession. He carried the truth with Him
(29 Sep '12, 19:20)
fred
1
jesus is the son of the father has i am and has is every one,jesus came to remove the darkness by telling the truth. he has know from the beguinning that people would not accept the truth and out of jalousy would kill him. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxaC_pgWtCk remember the word is truth.
(30 Sep '12, 02:36)
white tiger
I have never died in my dreams. I am invincible. Nothing can harm me. I have found myself running from something, but it can't catch me, even if I am moving really s..l..o..w..l..y like molasses. I can feel frustrated, overwhelmed, fear, etc... but nothing can hurt me.
(30 Sep '12, 16:10)
Fairy Princess
@Fairy Princess Yes I have many times but it was more like at the moment before death I switched from first person to second person view . I would watch myself get killed at that moment. But something interesting happened, as I was killed the more I realized I am the one that choses to lay down my life, no one else. One time a guy shot me over over with an automatic riffle. I walked up to him as he was shooting me then grabbed the gun and twisted the barrel like I used to watch Superman do.
(01 Oct '12, 02:43)
Wade Casaldi
The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life--only to take it up again.No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."
(01 Oct '12, 07:49)
white tiger
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I think it is important to know your own ultimate truths. It is kind of fun to list these things, from the mundane to the serious. Perhaps my partial list would look something like this: I am allergic to wool. I love cats. I am a Christian. I tend to give up too easily, but I am working on it. I have eyes that seem blue, but are really gray. I believe in democratic government. I wish I had had the chance to go to Northwestern as I planned and become a doctor... And so on. Make your lists, and see what you come up with. Just write off the top of your head. You may be surprised! Blessings to all, Jaianniah Cool idea!!
(28 Sep '12, 23:38)
LapisLazuli
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@LapisLazuli Brilliant question - I would give you more than +1 for that if I could! I need to think about the answer though.
@Catherine Thanks! I'm glad you like it:)
When realize I am dreaming that I need to jump off a cliff or building to take flight, I pinch myself to make sure I am really dreaming and not really awake.
I've never had dreams where I had to do anything life threatening, now that I think about it. Sometimes I've jumped and flew away, without a single doubt in my mind. It's like I have a higher knowning in them, like the option of not being able to do it doesn't exist, I just know and do. Even my nightmares have never required anything, they are usually just strange images and feelings. I really wish I could lucid dream though. The few times I've become aware I'm dreaming, I wake up immediately.
@LapisLazuli when you go to bed, decide, or set the intention that you will become aware in your dream and be able to do whatever you want. You can either explore your self and see what you decide to do, or you can decide ahead of time the kind of thing you want to do.
I have a much better sleep though when I decide to sleep right through the night and wake up in the morning.
@Fairy Princess I'll give that a try:)
soundtrack to your question http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Pf5ommdonQ