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I know this is a fairly provoking headline. but the reason i chose this is because i watched the following video on youtube where a man asks this question to abraham (esther hicks). and they give a very insightful answer to this question. just wanted to share. |
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To answer the (admittedly rhetorical, it seems) question being posed in your title "have 6 million jews really attracted their own deaths?" the answer is Yes...every single one of them. It could be no other way. I think what upsets many about these sorts of ideas is that they see people in the same physical location having the death experience all in the same way and they find it hard to accept because it's such a dramatic illustration of Law of Attraction in operation. It's like when there are airline disasters or terrorist attacks and groups of people die simultaneously. It seems almost unbelievable to them that such a vibrational orchestration could happen so precisely...but it does :) ...because we are ultimately all connected at a broader level. Look at how birds fly so elegantly together, or schools of fish swim in formation so precisely and you can see the Broader Connection clearly demonstrated.
If the same people had died but in different locations throughout the world and in different ways even if it happened at the same moment then most would have no problem accepting it :) One of the major flaws in reasoning which prevents people from seeing the truth behind these "mass death events" is their fundamentally incorrect assumption that death is a bad thing and therefore anyone who is attracting their death must be doing something wrong. Right now, I know very clearly of two people who are actively and positively preparing to die because they feel they've lived enough life and are ready to move on. To most, the idea of getting ready to die is labelled as a "bad thing" but, to them, it's genuinely an inspired decision and I'm pretty sure they'll find a way to make it happen soon...perhaps even in some "mass death event" :) Anyway, back to your question; I've written at some length about "genocide" ideas in Why did the victims of genocide in World War 2 allow themselves to be killed? 2
thank you. that answer makes sense. a few years ago i watched a few interviews with jews that survived even in the gas camps. and they almost all had in common their positive outlook on life. like look at this 108 old woman who is interviewed by tony robbins. look how positive she seems and she tells exactly how she created the "i love life" vibrations inwardly that saved her at the time of the second world war. LOA in action.
(23 Oct '12, 06:11)
releaser99
@Stingray- Pardon me, but I get the intuitive impression you are telling us you are preparing for your very own death?....:(
(23 Oct '12, 09:42)
Nikulas
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@Nikulas - Me? Not at all. I've got far too much stuff to play with in this physical reality. Perhaps in another 500 years or so, I might think again :) Is it possible to live forever, by manifesting that thought? . I'm talking about my (very religious) parents
(23 Oct '12, 09:54)
Stingray
@Stingray please read this book: Anne Frank: The Diary of a Young Girl http://www.amazon.com/Anne-Frank-Diary-Young-Girl/dp/0553296981 or watch this tv series if you can: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Diary_of_Anne_Frank_(TV_serial) and then reread the answer you gave to this question.
(23 Oct '12, 12:52)
nima
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@nima - In the @Stingray household at least; if during a discussion with my wife, rather than telling her what my point was, I instead told her to read a book first and then figure it out, I'm pretty sure I would soon discover a large handbag-shaped hole in my head :)
(23 Oct '12, 15:16)
Stingray
@Stingray: Ok, if you don't have time to read a book I tell you my point in one sentence (I just want to see if I'm missing a point here): how do you compare a teenage Jewish girl who is enthusiastic and has lots of plans for the future with old people who have lived their lives and are now preparing to die?
(24 Oct '12, 04:26)
nima
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@nima - Thank you for sparing me the need to read a book in order to answer you :) To answer your question, the point is that no-one can decipher the vibrational intents that another person has for their life. To my parents, death is something they are really looking forward to right now. I can't understand it but, to them, it makes perfect sense. I don't know Anne Frank's reasons for her participation in the experience but, at some level within her being, she still chose to take part.
(24 Oct '12, 05:30)
Stingray
@nima - I've heard of Anne Frank but never read the book. But are you saying that her joyous and liberating death experience, because all death experiences are, was not a vibrational match to her desire for freedom from her apparently confining life experience?
(24 Oct '12, 05:33)
Stingray
@Stingray: I honestly don't know if her death was a vibrational match to her desire for freedom, but how can you be so sure it was. The thing I don't get about your point of view is the element of choice (in some level) in their death. You come to this world, your family attaches you a label "jew", for a few years you live like anyone else in the world and then someone thinks you need to die because of that label you didn't choose.
(24 Oct '12, 09:40)
nima
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@nima - All death is suicide - If any ideas you read from me make you feel "triggered" in your existing belief system, then ignore them. I don't have any particular agenda for converting anyone into believing this or that. I just state what I've found to be true and anyone who wants to read it can do so, and anyone who doesn't can read something else :)
(24 Oct '12, 11:34)
Stingray
Well, ok then.
(24 Oct '12, 19:40)
nima
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Anne Frank voiced the desire to make a big splash and she sure did. She wrote in her diary: "I want to go on living even after my death! And that's why I'm grateful to God for having given me this gift, this possibility of developing myself and of writing, of expressing all that is in me... . Will I ever become a journalist or a writer? I hope so, oh, I hope so very much." Her diary is one of those essential books, I think.
(19 Nov '16, 04:22)
Delphine
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@Delphine I think if you are over 40 and from the US it was required reading; at least it was where I attended school. Yes, its one of those books you read when you're very young and never forget like "Johnny Got His Gun". Good quote!
(20 Nov '16, 21:46)
ele
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@ele, I appreciated the book a lot more when I re-read a few years ago. Here is another quote, from her father, his response on first reading it: "I never knew my little Anne was so deep." She really poured her heart, and herself, into those pages. I've never read "Johnny Got His Gun"! Another book, generally first read when young, that stays with you: "Catcher in the Rye."
(20 Nov '16, 23:38)
Delphine
"I appreciated the book a lot more when I re-read a few years ago" I agree! I was younger than Anne was when I first read it. I didn't see the depth or insight this 14 year old girl possessed until I read it again years later. I suspect I would appreciate it even more now. Your last quote made me laugh. Thanks :) The quote I recall is about happiness "Whoever is happy will make others happy."
(21 Nov '16, 02:09)
ele
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I watched a film a few years back called "Infinity" produced by Alberto Villoldo. In the movie, Alberto and other spiritual leaders, including Neale Donald Walsh,Brian Weiss, Robert Thurman,Greg Braden and others discuss this topic.What I found fascinating at the time was, We all agree to life contracts prior to our incarnations. In the movie they explain that every incarnate agreed to their LIFE,knowing full well that they would suffer horribly. But what truly surprised me was they all made this choice gratefully.Its my take from the movie they did this to further push the envelope,knowing that all their previous LIFE's Karma would be written off, so to speak. It"s my understanding that those souls are now coming forth as the NEW AGE children.The Indigo,Crystal and Rainbow children have all came forth with no previous karma,to help us all move forward faster. Really interesting film and well worth watching.Hope this helps. Love and Light. 1
@Roy Sounds great - I'll check that out. Brian Weiss - many lives, many masters is one of my favourite new age books. Thanks Roy.
(23 Oct '12, 13:15)
Catherine
@Catherine - Yes, me too. Loved that book.
(23 Oct '12, 17:10)
Grace
Catherine I never read the book but I did get to see him live at the I Can Do IT conference in Toronto last year,quite an eye opener,thanks.
(23 Oct '12, 18:21)
Roy
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@Roy Thank you for bringing this documentary to my attention. I watched about half of it so far and am really enjoying what these people have to share. The lady who talks about encountering an angel in human form has some interesting things to say about what happened in the holocaust and why certain things may have happened. Someone also mentioned that Hitler himself may have had to reincarnate as one of the people he so viciously despised.
(24 Oct '12, 14:17)
Cory
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No, because it is mathematically impossible. 6 million in 6 years = 1,000,000/yr = 2,740/day = 114/hr = 1.9 every single minute of every single day, 24/7 from the very 1st day of the war to the very last day. With the facilities the Nazi's had, this figure is an impossibility. 1
'The facilities', you mean death camps? If you, like so many uninformed, assume all 6 million died in death camps, then sure it's hard to 'mathematically' justify. However the Nazi's had much, much more than just those camps. They had weapons, millions of square miles of forest and land to hide bodies from the world, they had gas trucks, tens of thousands of foreign henchmen, tens of thousands of specialized mass-murder troops, they had plenty of resources. 2.740 deaths a day impossible? Eh, no.
(03 Nov '17, 18:57)
MusMus
I agree. I dont think they all deliberatly attracted their death but rather it was a life experience their souls wanted them to have. They were perhaps raised with beliefs that bought heavily into despair and fear and so made their fate in the camps.
(04 Nov '17, 01:36)
Nikulas
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I just popped my head in to IQ... This discussion is quite a shock. By coincidence, I spent a few hours this weekend learning about Raqqa, a city in Syria. There are people there exterminating Muslims they do not like, and the two documentaries I watched were very disturbing to me. Why did I watch these videos? I was asking myself if one human life really matters; this question led me to this study of the Middle East. I was reminded again and again of the extermination of the Jews as I watched these films, and was horrified for these people. What is happening in this discussion is rationalisation . When you try to understand, try to make something good out that horror, you are rationalizing an answer to try and wrap your head around this. In the End, it helps to do this because the whole mess was horrible, and horrors like this are still going on. We cannot absolutely prove that people make decisions as to lives they will live... People in Chaos Theory would have a field day with calculating the probabilities of everything happening just as is "decided". I do not agree with Walsch on this. But it does not matter. My point is this: by rationalizing, we can take a step back from that horror. It is a way to try and understand something that is really not understandable. I am hoping that we can put some compassion into this discussion. Imagine if some young person is also trying to understand. What if that young person was Jewish? He or she might Google this, and come across this discussion. So I am putting up another point of view; what happened was wrong, IMHO. I would like to say that the Holocaust was absolutely atrocious, that so many people suffered. I do not want to grow calluses against human suffering, I do not want to rationalize this away, nor make it easy to swallow. It is not excusable. Nor is any murder, any mass shooting, anything like this, at all justifiable. I want Inward Quest to also reflect that some of us here think it is all really, really awful. I refuse to excuse such behavior by saying that these people "attracted" their own genocide. My point of view needs to be part of this discussion as well. Jaianniah |
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Well in discussions like this I recall what Seth said, that we could have a world created with or without a reason. And if there was no reason, then we are everywhere a victim and prey to any and all vicissitudes. That this was only one alternative to ycyor. And I have great compassion for what the Jews endured. Two of my all time favorite texts are Anne Frank's Diary, and Man's Search For Meaning by Viktor Frankl. Frankl's book goes into his experiences in the camps and how it helped him formulate Logotherapy, literally "therapy of meaning." Frankl refused to condemn the Nazis even though he lost his parents and his wife to the camps. His book is one of the greats on attitudinal healing. Bashar talks a lot about the paradox connection. "Not this or that, but this and that." As it applies here, yes, the Jews created their reality of the Holocaust, and it was too bad they had to go through it. I think there is much we have learned and are still learning from that mass event. 1
@Delphine- Just because people found something good in all that bad, does not make it any less awful. I have a fundamental problem with this idea of "creating" one's own torture. Suffice to say, I also have tried to recover from horrific abuse; attitude is everything. But I really doubt that I asked to be sexually tortured at age three. I remember only confusion and fear. I would not wish that on any child. Let's just agree to disagree.
(13 Nov '17, 02:04)
Jaianniah
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I hate to put a spanner in this, but I'm going to do it anyway... I have researched the holocaust extensively, and I have concluded long ago that there was no holocaust. It was a gigantic political lie concocted to push the New World Order agenda. I am not going to present here the arguments that I believe prove conclusively that holocaust never happened, because that would be trying to summarise five years of my life and the hundred books I read, and also because of the abuse I got in the few occasions I mentioned this to other people. Finally, I am not here to convert anyone. I couldn't care less if you believe me or not. If you are inclined to research with an open mind, then you'll find the proofs, and if your mind is made up, then you won't. For the same reason I am not going to discuss or debate the issue any further here, or respond to comments. I have done my research and I have drawn my conclusions, and it's not going to change because of some casual chit-chat here. The only reason I write this answer is to provide some balance of opinion, which so far has been lacking, apart from @crosby's answer, which tried to offer some amount of counterbalance. 1
@cod2- You might be surprised, but I am glad you weighed in. Inward Quest works best when we all participate, and share our points of view. I grew up with free speech and was taught to not only render my point of view, but LISTEN to everyone else. You have given me something to ponder, as has everyone here.♡
(13 Nov '17, 11:14)
Jaianniah
Viktor Frankl discusses Holocaust deniers. "Oh thank you, thank you, now I have hope that my mother is still alive!" Only she isn't, because she died at Auschwitz.
(14 Nov '17, 05:34)
Delphine
@cod2- I have to say this...There are people who believe that the Earth is *.. they are wrong. I have been up Sears (Willis) Tower in Chicago. I could see the curvature of the Earth up there. Same thing here. How could such a huge thing as The Holocaust be falsified??? There are hundreds of testimonies on record. Are ALL these people delusional?
(10 Dec '17, 16:33)
Jaianniah
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To say anything good came from this is to agree with it. Example: right now in China, I just read an article that doctors are purposely killing people, harvesting organs for transplants. There is huge money in this, now you could say, look at all the lives they are saving with those organs! But the fact is they are killing just as many people to save other people's lives. It reminds me of the old television program called Friday The 13th, there was always some kind of benefit at the cost of people's lives. Does that mean that those evil possessed objects were really good and not evil because they benefited people even though they cost other people's live to do so? That didn't seem the point of the show, as long as people were killed these were seen as evil, to be stopped. There was an episode of a healing glove, another of a healing scalpel. I remember the scalpel was Jack the Ripper's scalpel, so the doctor did amazing surgery with it but he also went out at night killing people with it. The glove was similar but more of faith healing but still it had to have killing linked to the healing. That is evil, I know it is fiction but the Holocaust was not fiction, yes much medical knowledge came from that, and awareness of compassion, but the cost was torture and many people's lives. The good that came from it doesn't excuse the evil it came out of. 2
I did not say or imply the Holocaust was "good." Nor do I think abuse is "good."
(13 Nov '17, 20:20)
Delphine
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"If a murder has taken place it is a part of reality and has its own reason and meaning, otherwise it would not have happened. It makes no sense to refuse to accept the murder that has happened, unless we want to set ourselves against the universal order. But this does not mean that we should judge the murder as right and good, let alone commit one ourselves..."
(13 Nov '17, 20:21)
Delphine
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"All things are in themselves of neutral merit. It is only our attitude which creates out of them the contrasting categories of joy or suffering...It is never the circumstances themselves which affect our state of mind but only our attitude towards the circumstances." - quotes from The Challenge of Fate by Thorwald Dethlefsen
(13 Nov '17, 20:22)
Delphine
I am not going to stop caring about other people's suffering..."The human spirit will not even begin to try to surrender self-will as long as all seems to be well with it. Now error and sin both have this property, that the deeper they are the less their victim suspects their existence; they are masked evil. Pain is unmasked, unmistakable evil; every man knows that something is wrong when he is being hurt." ― C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain I can accept it as long as .....
(14 Nov '17, 18:05)
Jaianniah
...my acceptance of it does not imply to anyone that I think that is "acceptable". I care about others; it is something I choose to feel, and be. I care about Raqqa, I care about human suffering. It is my choice. It is something that is inherent in my nature. I guess we must agree to disagree. That is why I posted; to express a different point of view, and to show that I care.
(14 Nov '17, 18:08)
Jaianniah
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@releaser99 - That's the Abraham "Hat Guy" video that has previously been spoken of: http://www.inwardquest.com/questions/56968#57043