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I am a normal guy, I don't know what the hell is going on in the next room without going in there. I think its impossible for normal humans to tell what's going on in their next street without actually going there. The best and sharpest of our minds just recently found out there is water on the moon, we collectively as a species have limited information about the planet mars. We don't even know what's at the core of the earth - its just speculation. I am appalled by the casual off hand references to The Universe and also the explanations on how it works exactly on several answers and questions here. I cringe every time I read -- "This is how the universe works.." -- are you guys serious? Is this just a way to give weight to question/answer and impress others?
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I actually use the word "universe" in two different ways here. When I make the first letter lowercase, as in "universe," I am referring to the physical universe we live in. When I capitalize it, as in "Universe," I am referring to the underlying order behind the veil of what we experience with the five senses. I will interchange this word with Source or God, depending on whom I am addressing. I like that and will do the same from now on. Thank you :-)
(08 Jul '10, 06:39)
Eddie
I think I have been using it this way but from now I'll make sure to do so - Good idea:-)
(08 Jul '10, 13:48)
Michaela
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I think you're getting upset over nothing in particular. Terms like The Universe, or even God, or whatever other terminology makes you cringe and feel appalled are really only shorthand terms for something along the lines of... "To the best of my knowledge and understanding at this present time, this is apparently how it seems to me things are". Unfortunately, a disclaimer like the one above inserted every few sentences is not going to make for particularly interesting reading on this website, so we use shorthand phrases like The Universe to express the same idea. I think a more interesting question to ask yourself might be why it upsets you so much? :) why not just say, i think it works like this. why get the universe involved? even physicists and astronomers would think several times before making statements about the universe. I just feel its preposterous -- don't you think?
(07 Jul '10, 21:25)
xyz
well, assuming that I am a pantheist and I strongly believe that all the universe is God/Nature, when I say "that's how universe works" after discovering any principle (take the gravitation), I am absolutely right
(07 Jul '10, 22:18)
Asklepios
I believe that individuals interested in this subject change from being unsure about everything to being sure about the unknown. That statement may seem rather meaningless until one experiences this inner reference point of "I am that I am"
(10 Jul '10, 04:53)
The Traveller
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I can totally appreciate why you may have the kind of feelings you do, based on your current understanding and belief systems... From my perspective the words, source, God, the universe, consciousness and several other words are all 100% interchangeable because they represent something which is both unknowable as an absolute and hence, will always remain unnamable. Still, we have to use language to communicate, so words serve their purpose in that sense, but they are only labels which ultimately point to all that is. It seems to me that your current belief system prefers the Newtonian interpretation, whereby the world is seen as a huge machine; a machine that ultimately, someday will be fully understood, clarified and classified by science. In the meantime, if you stumble across other people’s interpretations that don’t fit in with your beliefs or understanding; you become flabbergasted and throw around accusations of nonsense or preposterous, etcetera :-) I think the main difference between your kind of thinking and mine is that I have zero desire to convince you of anything. I ask and answer questions on this site because I love it and it’s who I am. In closing, I’ll just state an eternal truth: Science doesn’t have a monopoly on understanding the nature of reality! Science unlike religion can't be pinned down to specific people, events or books. It does not claim to be the absolute truth - It says: This is the best I know and can prove - I could be wrong and I am willing to change - I'll be happy to change if you can prove me wrong and thus there will be progress. It is ever changing and moving towards the truth. Any attempt to understand reality in a systematic standard way is science. What other contender do we have?
(08 Jul '10, 05:10)
xyz
@DMin - it's interesting that even when Eddie specifically stated that he has zero desire to convince you of anything, you come back with a phrase like I'll be happy to change if you can prove me wrong. I often find that people who are insecure in what they believe require others to believe the same way to cover up that insecurity ("safety in numbers") while those who are secure in what they believe, don't really care what anyone else believes :)
(08 Jul '10, 06:07)
Stingray
lol, I could say: I rest my case, but I don't have a case :-) In aswer to - What other contender do we have? - Personally I see imagination and my higher self as being the same idea. So whenever that connection is stable enough I prefer and choose to examine reality from the perspective of my higher self.
(08 Jul '10, 06:45)
Eddie
"I'll be happy to change if you can prove me wrong." isn't me talking about myself -- its the philosophy of science : "This is the best I know and can prove - I could be wrong and I am willing to change - I'll be happy to change if you can prove me wrong and thus there will be progress."
(08 Jul '10, 08:11)
xyz
@Stingray: guess you misread my earlier comment -- Also, safety in numbers is not a universally negative thing. Thank 'safety in numbers' for international standards on time, weight, distance, maths and pursuit of objective truth - as it is(aka science). @Eddie - I don't know about higher self but I think Imagination is pretty important and so is ability of critical evaluation of what is presented to you. Question Everything.
(08 Jul '10, 11:41)
xyz
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Why get so hooked on the word Universe? I think you know that as Vesuvius mentioned most of us who use the term Universe on this site are not talking about planets, galaxies or such physical realities, our reference to that term is on a metaphysical level. If the word upsets you can substitute as you read with any word that makes you comfortable, as long as you understand what we are talking about. Of course if you do know what it is what we are talking about then you wouldn't be getting upset about this. As for us claiming that it is the absolute truth, I don't think any of us does that. We merely put forward our own interpretations and what our experience has led to take up as our current truth and I have not come across anyone here trying to convert or force others to accept their views as final. We merely share. |
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"Argue your limitations and they are yours" Richard Back. Maybe all of us on this website are crazy and you ar the only sane one on this site. Obviously there is something about this website that is attracting you even though your reaction to it is harsh. You need to explore that if you want to have an honest conversation. This is the only on line site that I go into. I am not interested in the others. You need to ask yourself why you are so interested in what we are talking about especially if it seems so crazy |
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I believe most here use "The Universe" as really short hand for a universal truth, in other words something that is in most religions such as the Golden Rule is found in every religion and many philosophies as well. I do see where you are going with this and agree that sites like this could benefit from applying "fully integrated honesty" in place of "truth" but that would require a much more objective approach of seeing what is. |
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I agree with xyz. Sometimes people on this forum speak as if they know the Ultimate Truth which is impossible for any human being. However some very deep and profound insights into spiritual principles are also offered and that is why I very much like this site. I think as long as we know that as human beings we may never be able to understand the Unknown, God or the Universe or whatever we may choose to call it, then we are ok. Once we claim that we know, we are bound to be mistaken in some way. Humility in our ability to understand that Unknown Essence which we may call God or the ultimate spiritual laws of the Universe is one of the qualities that is called for in any search for truth and understanding. i will tell you a little secret:nothing is impossible. now you don't believe what i say. the only thing making you see things as impossible is you. those are limits that you need to push back overcome or find a way to make it happen. but in truth nothing is impossible.
(20 Jul '11, 02:47)
white tiger
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While I fully hear you Inner Beauty, I think it's important to realize that no-one here claims to know "the Ultimate Truth". Each of us as individuals decide that for ourselves :)
(20 Jul '11, 16:12)
Michaela
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lost, discarded, destroyed and misintreperted knowledge of the ancient wisdoms sees the universe as a hierarchy, |
Personally, I have participated in a number of websites, and find the quality and intelligence of the trolls on this site to be particularly impressive. Perhaps we all are just intelligent trolls on this site...I dunno. But I think it was Vesuvius who said, "DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!!! You can tell if you are feeding a troll by the quality and quantity of his/her comebacks, the repetition of their viewpoints, despite evidence presented which disproves their pet theories...you get my drift. However, I find the ensuing dialogues so entertaining as to almost discourage the total disregard of these trolls. I have found our sense of humor never better or sharper when we engage our trolls...I guess this qualifies as Inward Quest Entertainment of the Highest Order... As usual, My Blessings Go Out....Jaianniah |
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well you have free will to decide for your self to experiance annything you want. but science as limit and is now reaching is limits. and science in quantum physic is now discovering that there is no limits but they do not have what it takes to go deepper. you do not believe me. how can you follow a photon that diseper and reapper some place else? are you even sure it is the same photon? another question for you: when you go out do you need science to tell you it is sunny or rainning or snowy outside? can science weight object in the dream? if you see the universe and understand somestuff about it with out using science is it not a valid truth? if no one knows your observation is as good as anny body else. |
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Is this a genuine question, or are you trolling?
I am curious, why would someone who seeks to know the truth speak of the universe when they obviously have no absolute knowledge of it - or am I missing something here.
I think, if I were you , I'd be looking at why this triggers such a strong reaction. Everyone on this site merely offers their point of view - if an answer resonates with you great and if not why not just leave it alone? - it's their point of view. All contributions are equal - none right or wrong ( the word universe is just that - a word).My Truth is just that - mine, it may not resonate with your Truth and that's just fine. Maybe your reaction is trying to teach you something :-)
Very insightful Michaela! I like your answer.
I would like to also add that this is the problem with self identification with the concept of "normal"
you say you are normal what is normal for you? is it the same normal as everyone else? experiance and enjoy.