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I realize that I posted a similar question about this subject recently. My emphasis here is on logic! Most people believe that Time is very different in Heaven. We cannot really say for sure because nobody has written a guidebook on the rules of Heaven. So, I am conjecturing here. After much thought, I decided that Time must pass in Heaven, or reincarnation could not work. There is more and more proof that reincarnation is real. There is a story of a boy who was born who said he was murdered in his last life. He led authorities to where his murderer buried his body. The boy then led the authorities to the guilty man. This child also knew very specific information about who he was in his last life. He now spends time between this former family and his present one. That story clinched it for me. Reincarnation is real... But if Time is not moving forward in Heaven , how would anyone know. when to jump from Spirit to Earth? Time is also a fundamental part of our Universe. So... I would guess that the souls in Heaven know exactly what time it is on Earth, and perhaps any other inhabited planet as well. So...Please think outside the box!. I am using logic here, as well as my memory of Heaven. I think that Time only moves forward. Also, it would be impossible to travel back and forth outside of time anywhere. Can you help me flesh out what I am proposing here? Please remember that ALL of this is conjecture... Even what I am saying here. Thanks!❤ |
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Thank you for insisting on precision! I have heard this is known as the lima bean principle- if you squeeze long enough in two directions, your awareness will pop into a third, which was the point. Here is the explanation that satisfies me: Time does not exist. It is a mechanical movement of consciousness through a multitude of similar realities to give the illusion of time. The illusion is held up quite strictly, but that is of our own choice, in order not to ruin the enjoyment of having the experience of time. The upside of time is that of any limitation: Only a limitation can give rise to a particular experience. Strict limitation is better than haphazard limitation for experience, because then it is easier to get skilled at playing with it. But in certain circumstances, exceptions may be made- I have apparently been run over three times, once with my nose in my cell phone, and was apparently given the option to continue in a similar time line. Given by whom? Well, by very own higher mind, of course- this is where it gets interesting. My higher mind, or oversoul, is my consciousness, and the part of me focused here is that part that experiences, and my oversoul aspect is the one who does the moving-through-time for me. So even though it is mechanical, it is done by a living, breathing, creative aspect of myself, for the benefit of having the experience. If that sounds like a very loving thing to do, it's because it is. When you die, and enter heaven, and then you remember that time does not exist, quite simply because your higher mind stops focusing you and moving you through time, and you can look at your entire life at once if you want to. You can hang around heaven for all eternity, and you do- you never technically leave heaven, even on earth. You're in heaven right now. You have simply focused yourself in such a way to create a certain experience. It's like a bunch of bored rich kids who already have everything they could ever imagine hooked on playing World of Warcraft. This can be very scary, because you think you are the little character on screen fighting the monsters- but you're not, you're the one pushing the buttons, and the one who chose the game. You can stop playing scary games at any time and go for a game of "The Sims" where all you have to do is chose a new bathtub and wonder which brand of car would be to your liking. And if that gets boring, you can go for something else entirely- perhaps an adventure quest in the jungle with friendly natives and scary ancient pyramids. But all of this is just a game, an experience, a drama- whatever challenges you face were chosen by yourself in advance, in order to experience them. That's why it makes sense for the blind monk to thank God for his blindness- he gave himself that experience of additional limitation for the purpose of experiencing it, and he is wise to cherish it. All of these things happen within time- and yet, you are never really within time, but in heaven, sitting there, watching, directing, helping, loving, setting up the best possible experience. For your higher mind, it's like watching your life on video, and you can rewind, fast-forward, or experience it all at once. But your higher mind can never observe time in as much detail as you can- which is why you are here. Yes, it absolutely logical to belief in both reincarnation and timelessness in heaven. Time itself does not exist- but we are all simulating it with our consciousness according to specific rules for our own enjoyment. It would make no sense to do this only once. And it would make no sense if heaven were not timeless- why simulate time if it existed? And since there is no time at all, it is possible to not play the earth game, and even to cut this one short- many do so through various means. Personally, knowing all of this causes me to continue to play the earth game in the most exciting way I know how- as a shaman, a shapeshifter, a surfer of the waves of the earth. I know intuitively I must have specialized in earth for countless generations. I know just enough about the deeper mysteries of time and reality to relax and enjoy the show. 1
@cmc-Lovely! Thank you! Wonderful writing.❤ I am going to need a day or two to meditate on this.
(11 Dec '17, 05:02)
Jaianniah
@Jaianniah Thank you very much!
(11 Dec '17, 05:10)
cmc
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Let us try an unconventional method using the Bible: Genesis portion that says there was a paradise on earth, then it was lost when people began to act with selfishness--it makes sense. Revelation 21:1, 5 says perfect condition would be restored at some time in future--it makes sense. We are now in between where we find God's established practice ["Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile" (Revelation 22:11) which would mean that there is no intervention in the case of individuals and in each individual use of free-will. God, being the master of the universe, would need to act only on whole sale basis, hence would and must restore the original perfect condition. Law of increasing entropy would again set things into a downhill trend, which would mean God would renew system of things again. This is in harmony with two opposing isms--Theism and Atheism: Theism says "From the more comes the less," and atheism says "from the less comes the more" [as implied by Natural Selection which is "the process ultimately capable of generating complexity out of simplicity," God Delusion, Richard Dwakins] Thus both agree that something comes from something. If something comes from something, it has always been true, and it has always been there--infinite into the past and infinite into the future. It is in harmony with what we see in the nature. Nature has a rhythm and things happen in cycles such as cycle of night and day, cycle of season, carbon cycle, nitrogen cycle... etc. We also see the principles of such cycles reflected around us: plants grow and die leaving seeds that ensure new lives are reborn continuously. There are cycles happening within us too--cells in our bodies become old and are being replaced with new ones at regular intervals! Even when we sleep at night, we typically go through several sleep cycles. And each one of these cycles consists of 4 different stages of sleep--awake, light sleep, deep sleep and REM sleep. Those cycles show A MUTUAL INTERDEPENDENCE and purpose. For example, each season emerges from the previous and gently turns into the next. Winter snows feed the ground for Spring's blossoms. Summer's heat ripens the plants for Fall's harvest. While in day, we desire for night and vice versa. While in hot Summer we wish it was Fall. While in cold Winter we wish it was Spring. This is true of the greater cycle of New World and old world alternating on earth. When the old world ends, all the souls return to heaven, as though children returning for home from play ground. Then they remain there for some time till the new world is recreated on earth, and start coming down to play--numberwise. A few descend first, followed by others, and others gradually increasing the population thus heaven being emptied. Once on earth souls go on reincarnating. It means those who descend first get more births and those who descend last get only one birth, and those who descend in between vary in the number of birth they get. In other words, souls descend at varying times, but go back at the same time all together. And next cycle begins. 1
I am tempted to upvote because I like the writing, the fresh approach, and the sheer guts and contrarianism it would take to post something based on both scripture and atheism to a new age site. But I'm also tempted not to- it seems much easier to simply see both scripture and atheism as arbitrary sets of truths like any other, to be judged by their results. Most of the time, I prefer the results of neither- but the synthesis could be tremendously valuable to those who believe strongly in either
(11 Dec '17, 12:08)
cmc
@Jeremiah-this is a good answer, also. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us! I was just talking to Wade about the number of souls presently on Earth...nearly 8 billion. If there is Reincarnation, then Heaven must be pretty empty... I have been wondering if some big bad thing is going to occur.. Something like some of our disaster movies have been portraying. It is an something to ponder! I thought I was the only one that is thinking about this. Thanks again. Jai❤
(12 Dec '17, 23:33)
Jaianniah
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"I am using logic here" - and there lies the problem. as long as we live on this earth we use our logic , its impossible for us not to use logic for a long period of time, so we cant really understand the concept of time. and i dont think we're suppose to. but... as far as i understand it... time dose not exsist. yes, we could think about the past or about the future, but they are just memories or posibilities that we think about them NOW. i belive that we are here to experience different energies (and are able to expend through this exposure or choose not to). so it actually dose'nt matter if a person is dead or alive while making a choice to be someone else, because it is just a choosing to experience a different type of energies and to expand him self into somthing different. it is a continuation of the old self but with a new and fresh chice. for example - a living person who chooses to not be a victim anymore - he undestand the energy of victimhood and transform it to somthing else in order to START A NEW LIFE. he dose not have to die in order to start new. or if someone dies he is even more focused ,and chooses to come to earth again, so he knows exactly what he wants and the types of energy he wants to experience, and therefore start a new life. time dosent have to exsist here. because... are you prepared? we are just energies !!! we are all just waves hanging around here that taking it all way too seriously!! we are part of the experience that everyone else is experiencing too. the whole experience is not real, but a fiction of our imagination.
everything, EVERYTHING is right here, even the dead people or the stars or the sun etc.. and we dont percive it that way because we are limited in our perspective. we learn that the stars are far away and that the dead are gone, but everything is energy. we are too vibrationaly dense to see in our senses everything but it is all here. the past and the future are here too, it is a fact that you can bring the past (energy) into your now thought.
little children for example understand the concept of time because they dont have any beliefs embedded in them yet so they are much prone to forgive, forget, live in the now and just have fun. I come from a tradition that strictly answers the question but does not judge it- in that context, there is no problem with any question, including those about logic. Just presenting this here as an idea because I like working that way so much.
(14 Dec '17, 04:37)
cmc
it wasnt a judgment. it was a suggestion. everyone on earth including myself uses there logic. its just that while using logic you encounter conflicts. while shuting logic off there's no conflict and the answer appears.
(14 Dec '17, 05:15)
myself
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Heaven is illogical and contradicts everything we know about Life. I keep asking the same question: What does one DO in Heaven? Do we just float about doing nothing? If there is work, what kind of work? Where do we live? Is a room/apt allotted to us just like in Communist countries? Do we eat? Do we sleep? Not one question is answered This "there is no time in Heaven" is a way to avoid answering any questions. It just doesn't make any sense - what is the purpose of all these billions of people - these are people, right? - just hanging about doing nothing - a useless existence for eternity? We hear so much about how we will see all over loved ones in Heaven not one word on how our loved ones are doing down on earth? How are the getting along without their breadwinner? Are they living on the streets, did my kids drop out of school? A grandchild is lost in the forest, crying for his mommy and slowly starving to death. Is Grandpa in Heaven enjoying cake? How about a daughter fleeing rapists? How about a war that is devastating our country? Being in Heaven means caring no more? Just cheap promises from religion - that's all Heaven is - just Fools Gold THIS IS ALL THERE IS! That is what Reincarnation is telling us - there are no other worlds, no heaven, no magic Retirement home in the sky, nothing! But if you still insist on a retired life - then you get to be reborn as a Tree or a Pet -dog, cat - then you get to just sit around doing nothing all day - as a pet, your owner will take good care of you, eat, sleep - zero worries or responsibilities - Heaven! @Vanamali - "you get to be reborn as a Tree or a Pet -dog, cat" - That's transmigration rather than reincarnation.
(28 Aug '19, 01:30)
Stingray
@Stingray - It's just a word - you can call it whatever you want, the end result is the same God has taught us that there is no free lunch, God thru life has taught us that ALL creatures must grow up, move out of the nest and stand on their own two feet, make a living, support themselves But people don't like that - they want the easy life and religions are more than happy to tell them what they want to hear Well, they will get their wish Fools Chasing after Fools Gold
(28 Aug '19, 20:51)
Vanamali
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