@Monty Riviera This is one for the Big Hitters (@The Traveller - this is a great question for your skill set) but when I've tried it I definitely get some sort of feeling of peace. I think Frank Kinslow (The Secret of Instant Healing) calls it Eu feeling. The only way is to try it Monty ... if we don't see you again, I'll assume you have ascended!

@Catherine "if we don't see you again, I'll assume you have ascended!" hahahaha :D

It doesn't @Monty Riviera. Do you know why a man receives higher consciousness? A man receives higher consciousness as the result of evolution, it is not received as a result of a desperate need of man to grow bigger than him self. This is the secret of Alchemy. Man within himself transmutes knowledge to wisdom. It cannot be obtained by a shortcut. Can a monkey jump from its natural evolved state to a human being's evolved state? neither can we jump from simple Joe to the state of Eckhart.

@Monty Riviera: good too see you!

But my point is mastermind that the simple Joe WAS Eckhart! HES the one that believes his no thought brought this about.I do tend to agree with your sentiments and i do see the evolving thing.

Thanx ursixx...nice to be back for a bit

"HES the one that believes his no thought brought this about" No monty. No thought state didn't bring that experience to him. It was mystical experience, where he experienced for a moment the feeling of the quiet mind. He experienced consciousness. It could be the result of many life time's effort. He could have been a Yogi in India in a past life! we cant say!

You cant bring consciousness by trying hard. No more than a tree can force a flower to blossom or a human can make a wound heal by affirmation. He can apply medicine to a wound, but he can heal it.

But mastermind2, if what your saying is true, and Eckharts experience is a result of a past life experience ( maybe) he does still maintain in his work that his no thought brought this about. Now i agree that he could be wrong and your scenario could very well be right, i happen to think there IS truth in this. BUT ...its not what Eckharts saying himself! Its certainly not what many would read into or get out of his book. But im very open to what you say...i realy am.

Monty even Dalai Lama made wrong decisions. (China Tibet issue) It could simply be that Eckhart interpreted the experience wrong. "he does still maintain in his work that his no thought brought this about." This is one of the reasons I personally believe, there is something fishy about the guy.

Yes mastermind2, i see your point. The issue that hes interpreting wrongly (maybe ) is a massive cornerstone of his work. My jury really is out on his teaching. He doesnt quite resonate with me the way Neville or Ester does. But i will keep an open mind.

@Monty Riviera I had this tug between the two schools of thought - Esther (thinking good feeling thoughts) v Eckhart (not thinking) - both are valid and I have to say that I use both techniques, depending on the circumstances. They both recommend living in the NOW and both recommend stilling thoughts using meditation. If I really stop thoughts, even for a few moments, I do get that feeling of deep peace. I don't think Eckhart Tolle is remotely "fishy". This is a good question btw.

LOL...at anyone considering no thought fishy. made my day. :) Thus it's now complete and i can go to sleep.

@Catherine @CalonLan Asia has been a hub for spiritual sciences for the last 3000 years. Here, everyday a man comes claiming that he has seen god, or that he has become a Buddha or that he is the Maitreya Buddha. A few kilometers away from my house there's man who claims he is a messenger of Goddess Kali, he wears on his neck and hands 6 kilos of gold.

.. We've seen people like Eckhart, hundreds of times, they come and go, their disciples didn't get what they were promised. so when we see people claiming these strange ascends to the divine, it is natural for us to feel fishy. One question that bothers me is why the Greek philosophers who explored corners of the universe gave the world mathematics,geometry, chemistry and music never discovered these shortcuts to God.

@mastermind2, "He who boasts achieves nothing. He who brags will not endure." ... it must be truly the darkest place under the candle light. It's just another paradox of life that in one of the great places of the spiritual understanding, some people learn nothing of it. And are led astray by other intentions.

The man who wears 6 kilos of gold, washes his feet and let his disciples drink the dirty water as kind of a holy water. There are yogis in India who meditate on fire and beds of nails. Buddha broke through this none sense ideas. So did Jesus (The Righteous Indignation). I hope I wasn't offensive to your beliefs when I said I feel fishy about Eckhart, but to me, it really bothers me how he takes a silence of about 5 minutes before he answers a question..

@mastermind2, you were not offensive at all. I was commenting on state of no thoughts itself.

I have no beliefs about Eckhart, in fact I've heard about him only a few days ago. I'm open to listen to him or any guru or channeled being, but I kind of always stay with Buddha and Lao-Tzu. Those two were crazy, if compared to majority of people, but it's craziness that feels like home to me. :) And of course Osho for interpretations and comments. He's great too.

@CalonLan I'm apt to believe I'm ignorant in my decision. But do you think a man of Spiritual profundity, would advice people of lesser Spiritual development anything more than live good, be kind and do good? because spiritual profundity has nothing more than realizing the divine plan for all life, divine will for its creation. I mean giving a KEY to life? doesn't it feel fishy :. Wouldn't a man of great wisdom probably say something simple like this as a KEY to life:

"This is my simple religion. There is no need for temples; no need for complicated philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our temple; the philosophy is kindness."

@mastermind2, my experience is such that love defeats hatred every time. Or better to say, hatred defeats itself, because it fights and love doesn't fight, thus it cannot be defeated. But I'm not fan of outlining paths of living (eg. someone saying - help others, be kind, do good etc).

I would think man of Spiritual profundity would explain to people what love means. And let way of love find its paths in lives of people.

@Mastermind2 It is OKay not to agree on everything. You really add to this forum because you come at things with a different point of view ... I really like that. It can feel a bit contrived if we all just agree with each other (there is clearly no danger of that on IQ) and afterwards I did think Eckhart Tolle's initials are ET!

@mastermind2, just like you don't tell water to flow in a certain way. Love is like water, let it take forms depending on forms it fills.

There are many people telling that only form of a jar is right or form of a box is right and should be followed. Fact is, water doesn't care for what form it takes. And so we'd be better off if we stopped focusing and forcing "forms" on the world and people, and let the water take any form it wants.

@Mastermind2 I don't think ET is promising instant enlightenment though - all he is saying is that here is a way to find inner peace and move beyond your ego. In moving beyond the ego you automatically stop all the ego nonsense and find yourself more loving towards others, more compassionate, more understanding. That's the theory of it anyway - it is a long journey for most of us but he is a wayshower. Of course it isn't the only way.

@Catherine, "it is a long journey..." oh please. ;) It is a matter of seconds, but I guess even some seconds might seem as eternity. E.g. sitting in a dentist's chair. lol

@CalonLan Of course enlightenment can be instant but I get the impression from serious seekers on this forum and also my own experience that it feels like a journey - only my own impression, nothing more, nothing less.

@Catherine, and your impression's right. All that seriousness stands in their way. Indeed it's a long one to overcome.

Being serious, is in a way being aggressive. Being serious, is acting as if it matters, or is important. Which is another way for trying to find meaning, sense to all of it and reasons to justify with. And the need to have a meaning is result of feeling lost and having none.

It's right there, be lost and without meaning and you'll be found and everything will make sense. :-D

@CalonLan So Cal how many of these "seconds" enlightenments do you need to make a one whole enlightenment? I mean one with effects that last more than a second or two. That gives a permanent placidity and tranquility? You are right, you are lost without meaning :P

@mastermind2, where does it says that enlightenment is permanent? ;)

@CalonLan You might want to see Wikepedia on Osho btw - great meditation processes but his life was kind of a mess. Give me Eckhart any day.

@Catherine, I know nothing about his life. And I think it's best to keep it this way. So that when reading or listening to him, I'm not locked in a prison of judgement and prejudice.

If Buddha was a serial killer, would it make his understanding he left us with any more less than it is? Same goes for anyone.

Learning about other people's lives and memorizing facts and creating delusional perception of the person based on them is tiresome, bothering and unnecessary. :)

@CalonLan then you and I would have to disagree - for me, an enlightened person (one I would want to listen to) wouldn't be in a spiritual state where they would speak divisively.

@Catherine, I meant to say prior to enlightenment. The history and the past, doesn't matter.

@CalonLan Agreed the past doesn't matter but imo moments of expanded consciousness is not the same thing as enlightenment.

@Catherine, well who's to draw the line and say what's right anyway ; )

@CalonLan "moments of expanded consciousness is not the same thing as enlightenment." This is exactly what I wanted to say.

"well who's to draw the line and say what's right anyway" This is a nice argument. When you feel the ship sinking you break the pillars of logic and reason by attacking the basis where all logic stands. Niceee! I've been watching this trick this is the 2nd time I saw you use it! ;)

@CalonLan Cal my analysis about Eckhart is completely based on Behavioral Psychology. Its not prejudice or judgement of a negative kind. Its his behavior which arouse suspicion in me. Like Bush talking about 9/11 and showing a brief microexpression of happiness in his face! You cant see it, and those who see it don't speak about it!

@CalonLan But the examples I gave you earlier was my way of getting down to the level of the listener to explain a problem. One of the first things to learn in criminal psychology is, when man acts beyond a certain level of normalcy, we must doubt him. It doesn't mean he's a criminal, it means he is hiding something.

@CalonLan Do you think a serial killer could jump to Buddha in the same life time that he was a serial killer? Well, if he some how fought for a 'no thought' state it is possible in your logic, right? What about the family who lost their members by the killer? If the killer came out next day as a Eckhart, then has the nature/God done the right thing? Suddenly bestowing peace and silence upon a man who destroyed peace and happiness of many other families?

Dalai Lama explains that serial killers would have to definitely be born as a cripple in the next life time and learn the value of 'life' which he destroyed in someone else.

@mastermind2, But of course, logic only create problems called arguments. Thus we're forever trapped in an eternal maze of trying to reason things out if we give into playing the game of logic.

With every argument that's created, its opposite enters into existence as well.

And you might be right, Eckhart might be hiding something. But I just listen to what he's got to say and see for myself. Perhaps because I don't feel the need to be happy, I'm not getting attached to his work so much.

@mastermind2, I'm open to idea of a beggar becoming a Buddha in the same life, just as I'm open to a serial killer becoming a Buddha.

It's called awakening, waking up from delusional state of being. Transcending boundaries of lies to reach the truth. Delusions are deeply rooted, and environment and society only strengthen them.

I see the possibility is available for anyone. But I understand not everyone is keen on abandoning security or the sense of reality they cling to.

@mastermind2, just like undressing yourself. Every piece of clothing is one of those lies that won't let you see the naked truth. You can take a piece off per life, and drop it down all in one.

@CalonLan I agree with what you say about reason and logic. But I don't agree that reason and logic is creating a maze that traps the beholder of reason and logic. Because it is reason and logic, that makes us question why are we here? who is God? what is life? - It is the same power that drove you to spirituality. To find answers to questions that reason bred.

This is called awakening..if you may: beggar is PAYING negative Karma, killer is MAKING negative Karma. Two very different cases.

@CalonLan "Transcending boundaries of lies to reach the truth. Delusions are deeply rooted, and environment and society only strengthen them." - This I agree.

"I see the possibility is available for anyone" - It is possible for anyone who is ready to change them selves to the better. A drunkard cant be a saint, without giving up his drinking habits. A serial killer cant be a saint just by conversion. This is the 'long journey'.

@mastermind2, yes it was logic and reason that has lead me to spirituality. The greatest mind's ability - thinking - will eventually lead it to its own demise - no thinking. It's a beautiful paradox.

@calonLan This is the secret behind the paradox: Faith is born when reason sinks exhausted ~ General Albert Pike. ;))))) It is indeed beautiful Cal!

@CalonLan "but I kind of always stay with Buddha and Lao-Tzu." I just saw this comment and some how I missed it :\ and I hope I was able to add something about Buddhism, to your ,already profound knowledge. Thank you for the discussion Cal!

@Barry Allen ♦♦ Can you please remove the image link I posted above. Thank you.

smoke some salvia divinorum it instantly will give you no thought, and when you are not ready for it because you didn't get there the sober and natural yoga way, it will scare the soul out of you and come back and try to define nothingness and all things at the same time existing at the same time. by the way salvia divinorum is more legal than cigarettes and alcohol.

@mastermind2, it was my pleasure. :)