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I've been experimenting with nicotine patches at night with the expectation that they would make it easier to trigger lucid dreams in which I could immerse myself in the feeling of the wish fulfilled but their effect wasn't as significant as I had expected. I don't know what to do anymore. I'm going to start using the 21mg patches and instead of spacing the attempts, I'll do them every night. I've never smoked and the first couple of times I used the 14mg patch it made me sick. I was going to give up on that approach but I don't have a better idea and I just don't care about any possible negative outcome from using the patches (I got used to the 14mg patch, so even if the 21mg patch makes me sick, I'm sure I'll get used to it). It also seems like (could be a coincidence) the negative effects (nausea) are dimishing while the positive effects (dreams that are more colorful, vivid, stable and well structured) are increasing. Could smoking (and therefore patches) actually change the brain so it is better able to use nicotine instead of changing the brain to become less sensitive to it? Because it seems smokers have particularly strong experiences while on the patch (based on internet reports) while non-smokers sometimes notice nothing. I came upon this because import restrictions make it impossible for me to use galantamine, which is supposedly an extremely effective way to induce lucid dreams. Nicotine patches, which do something similar (in effect, not mechanism) to galantamine, and even though nicotine is supposedly EVIL, patches are easier to buy than beer or cigarettes. Have you ever tried sleeping with a nicotine patch on?
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Flowsurfer, Flowsurfer, Flowsurfer In some ways I agree with @Jai ; but I don't believe in censorship. I would like to write a few words of caution for anyone reading this & attempting methods suggested here. Nicotine doesn't affect people in the same way. Everyone's system is different. Nicotine may increase your alertness; but for others it has a calming & relaxing effect. It's very likely wearing a nicotine patch may produce vivid dreams; but that's a far cry from lucid dreaming flowsurfer. If you actually read the directions & look at the less common side effects you will see abnormal dreams listed. Any pharmacist will tell you the same thing. A number of years ago, a gf of mine who was an elementary teacher was rushed to ER by ambo complaining of severe heart palpitations & shortness of breath after her Dr prescribed nicotine patches. She wasn't smoking at the time, so she didn't get a mega dose of nicotine. It's also contraindicated to smoke & use the patch at the same time. You are only asking for trouble if you do. Here's a link to common nicotine side effects as well as less common. http://www.drugs.com/sfx/nicotine-side-effects.html
Make sure you scroll down & read the less common side effects. Personally, I think it's a waste of 50 bucks; but if someone is determined to take this route - I suggest the lower mg nicotine patches first & educate yourself. You asked if anyone has tried wearing a nicotine patch at night. Are you supposed to remove the patch when you go to bed? I think most people wear the patch 24 hrs & then replace with a new one the next morning. I've worn the patch to bed. I've used the nicotine patches for other medicinal reasons from time to time & not to stop smoking. I don't recall any special dreams. I'll throw one on tonight & check it out. As for Mugwort - generally a cup or two of tea is ok for most people. Yes, you can smoke it & also use if for smudging. Roy's right - you won't get high. My Grandmother was a herbalist & midwife & mugwort had many uses. I'm going to caution females in particular to educate themselves before using mugwort; especially if pregnant. Here's a link. http://www.witchipedia.com/herb:mugwort It grows wild in my area; but you have to be able to distinguish it from another herb which looks similar. Yes, I've used mugwort for medicinal purposes. This link has this word of caution on Mugwort. http://www.nyctophilia.net/plants/mugwort.htm
. @ele yes sure @Jai has a point, nicotine can cause adverse effects, but so can cafeine, salt, sugar, theine, iron and many other commonly ingested sustances ... many plants and foods contain traces of nicotine ... whenever in doubt i always ask my pendulum and in the case of the punctual use of a nicotine patch it gave a definite yes
(29 May '13, 03:02)
ru bis
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@ru bis Yes, there are side effects to just about everything if not used in moderation. I have no qualms about using the patch - I've never had an adverse effect or a lucid dream from use. Other people read these questions & I just want people to be aware. What might not harm you or flowsurfer could cause harm to someone else. Enjoy your patch & if you are female educate yourself on mugwort first. Also the side effects I mentioned for nicotine patches are not the norm - but - they do happen.
(29 May '13, 03:20)
ele
@ele It is not a matter of "moderation". Milk and other food items can kill you. So can the latex covering a doctor's hands. So can just about ANY of the freely sold medications in a pharmacy. Aspirin can be lethal. I myself had a serious reaction to a widely used painkiller which is freely sold which made me think I was going to die. We don't live in a perfectly safe world. Nicotine is reasonably safe.
(29 May '13, 05:14)
flowsurfer
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One thing I would warn people is to not cut the patch. It could leak and cause an overdose. And obviously, if you feel bad, take it off immediately. And don't go for the 21mg at first, unless you are already a heavy smoker, use the 7mg.
(29 May '13, 05:17)
flowsurfer
@flowsurfer -- you are talking about apples & I'm talking about oranges. If you are allergic to milk or latex it has NOTHING to do with moderation.. It's an allergy... The caution was not for you - it was for other viewers. I'm glad you added a caution & reiterated what I said about using the lower strength patches first.
(29 May '13, 05:20)
ele
@flowsurfer I have a suggestion. Check out some books on Shamanism. Some have instructions on how to journey. You also can take a class - won't cost much more than what you are spending on supplements & patches.
(29 May '13, 05:27)
ele
Vivid dreams are not such a far cry from lucid dreaming ele. They are not the same but a vivid, well structured dream is a lot closer to a lucid dream than a foggy, faded, confused dream is, simply because it's more or less impossible to become lucid when you are in a dream that doesn't even approach normal human thinking.
(29 May '13, 05:28)
flowsurfer
@flowsurfer I had no idea you don't have vivid dreams. It's normal for me. When I have a chaotic dream it usually means I'm confused &/or stressed. You're also pretty down & I would suspect this is one of the reasons you don't dream vividly. I'm on your side flow ...
(29 May '13, 05:30)
ele
Great explanation Ele,I should have mentioned some of your points.Love and Light.
(29 May '13, 06:58)
Roy
@Roy actually I'm the one who is wrong - I gave mugwort way too much attention.
(29 May '13, 07:12)
ele
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Mugwort does have many wonderful properties,I always trust people would educate themselves on any herb used for healing before they use it.Thanks.
(29 May '13, 07:24)
Roy
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@Roy I agree & that's why I posted a link showing the beneficial properties & uses of mugworth. It's a good link even if it's from witchipedia - lol I use mugworth & it is a good medicinal herb. Astral travel & lucid dreaming could be considered healing - healing journey. Anyone reading this - just be smart & it's always wise to get as much info on any herb or supplement before using.
(29 May '13, 07:33)
ele
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No i havnt to be honest. Im guessing that the " feeling of the wish fullfilled" is something similar to the teachings of Neville Goddard. In my humble opinion one of the most gifted and powerfull men ever to have been incarnated in this reality. BUT...and its a big but, your probably not right now where Neville was when he taught these things. He had learned his "trade" with another master, he had studied and excercised his craft and had " put the hours in" . For Neville and perhaps a few others on this site the ideas he taught and the results he got were an easy vibrational step. Something very easy to believe and perhaps no big deal when they manifested. But from what ive read in your questions and comments your trying to run here before you can even crawl! Your trying to immerse yourself in the " feeling" of the wish fullfilled. Its not working is it? And frankly you could immerse yourself in a bath of pure nicotine and it still wouldnt work. Why ? because your core beliefs simply wont allow you to feel this. Not from where you are now. Its just not happening. The leap is simply TOO far for you . Your like a boxer who after no training, no diet and excercise ,no experience ... takes a quick ten minute boxing lesson and then jumps into the ring with the Klitschko brothers....both of them. Flowsurfer , your desperately trying to achieve something, but your going about it in such a way that your digging yourself into a bigger hole. And God knows with the nicotine patches your probably buggering up your health as well as your mind. I think a lot of people on our site are trying to help you, they all mean well and most are giving you some sound advice. Perhaps among this advice is the very stuff you need to start the process of healing yourself. I sometimes fear we are wasting our time! I kind of get the impression that your not going to allow yourself to be healed. Am i right Flowsurfer ? Healed from what?
(29 May '13, 16:36)
flowsurfer
Miss alignment with your higher self. Its the "only" thing wrong with you....or me....or anyone else.
(30 May '13, 01:57)
Monty Riviera
And what does that mean?
(30 May '13, 02:08)
flowsurfer
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Now if i tell you what this means you wont accept it. Im not going to give you a flippant answer that you will disregard anyway. You need to find this out for yourself, the answer needs to come from within you. Ive noticed that you parry every single answer your given, probably because non of them are what you want to hear. Alignment with Source or your higher self is quite simply the answer to all your dreams. Now you can think of something negative, or clever to say.
(30 May '13, 02:20)
Monty Riviera
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Or you can find the answer out for yourself. BUT....you wont do that by asking any more questions..youve asked enough. Youll find your answers by listening to what youve already been given. Your choice Flowsurfer. And youve already been given so much. Youve just overlooked it thats all.
(30 May '13, 02:22)
Monty Riviera
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I must admit i don't smoke and have never used nicotine patches or any other such non prescribed drugs, except wine which could be considered as a drug at high dosages ... however here's a guy that seems to know a bit about nicotine and dreaming The reason nicotine works is because it mimics acetylcholine. This boosts alertness and memory and activates your brain in general.
(28 May '13, 05:04)
flowsurfer
I shouldn't have been so negative in the question. Last night I had a pretty good dream experience (I've had better but this was in the top 10%) with a 14mg patch in which I almost became lucid.
(28 May '13, 05:06)
flowsurfer
@flowsurfer seems cool to me, thanks for the info, i'll give it a spin :)
(28 May '13, 05:27)
ru bis
@ru bis Let me know what happens!
(28 May '13, 06:09)
flowsurfer
@flowsurfer i'm new to all this so i looked up some info "lucid dreaming; a beginner's guide" http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2009/09/21/how-to-lucid-dream/
(28 May '13, 06:18)
ru bis
Melatonin supposedly helps by suppressing REM during the first half of sleep. I tried 5-htp (the precursor to serotonin which is the precursor to melatonin) and noticed zero improvement. I had a better effect from simply drinking alcohol before sleep, which also suppresses REM for a few hours. I also noticed that most of my good experiences involve either sleeping less the previous night (and thus avoiding the late-sleep REM period) or prolonged sleep deprivation (50+ hours).
(28 May '13, 15:22)
flowsurfer
Save your money - melatonin will not work & doesn't work even for medicinal reasons unless you are elderly. Does that guy know the difference between a lucid dream & a vivid dream?
(29 May '13, 01:58)
ele
@ele The guy explicitly said he knew he was dreaming. Yes, thinking in lucid dreams can sometimes be somewhat irrational (as can thinking while wide awake!).
(29 May '13, 05:21)
flowsurfer
@flowsurfer i tried a 7mg nicotine patch yesterday evening for just 3 hours, felt good, stimulating ... next i'll try it at night ... after that i'll do the soul energy test
(30 May '13, 02:18)
ru bis
@ru bis make sure you upload a you tube video of your experience & post a link here.
(30 May '13, 05:15)
ele
@ele the most interesting part will certainly be the soul energy test, that is, impregnation of my aura not with the physical product nicotine, but with it's soul energy simply by writing "nicotine" on a white piece of card, valorizing it, then placing it in my pocket or under my pillow
(30 May '13, 05:22)
ru bis
@ru bis .. and for people reading along - how does one valorize this soul energy on this white piece of card or are you saying the simple act of writing the word valorize's it?
(30 May '13, 06:29)
ele
@ele a freshly written word enters immediately into resonance with what it signifies, that is, it's specific vibration(soul vibration/intrinsic energy/soul energy if you prefer), in this case nicotine and naturally progressively accumulates this soul energy to a maximum after 72 hours. This is what is meant by valorization. Using a graph, usually a decagon, valorization can be completed in a matter of minutes depending on the size of the decagon.
(30 May '13, 11:18)
ru bis
Thank you @ru bis for the clarification. You're referring to the Servranx graph #52 decagon which is the graph used to make artificial witnesses according to the principles of radionics. Very interesting graph & English translation is very user friendly. http://www.servranx.com/Products/Graphiques/DE-RADIONIQUE/N%C2%B0-52---Le-decagone.aspx
(30 May '13, 21:59)
ele
@flowsurfer this time i tried a 7mg nicotine patch for three hours during the night and while sleeping ... i felt my body heavy and asleep and my mind was fully awake in a world of diamonds and gold, i was walking along a pathway, to my left was a friend and to his left was the woman with which i live ... they were deep in conversation so i slowed my pace and they went ahead, i played with a dog and ball then i took a shortcut to try to intercept my two friends but they didn't appear ...
(31 May '13, 00:30)
ru bis
... i found myself alone on the path with these words " the printing of the truth" ... "leave not a rack behind, we all have our entrances and exits" ... when i awoke i had tears flowing from my eyes then i heard a noise in my right ear as if a barrage had broken and i had a few drops of clear liquid in my ear ... @ele yes i'm referring to the Servranx decagon graph no.52, thanks :)
(31 May '13, 00:37)
ru bis
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@ru bis Was that an unusual experience for you? What are your nights usually like?
(31 May '13, 01:54)
flowsurfer
@flowsurfer - great question. I was ready to buy stock in a nicotine patch company based on ru bis's seal of approval & endorsement. @ru bis The Tempest - nice dream - diamonds & gold.
(31 May '13, 02:04)
ele
@flowsurfer my dreams are often mundane, sometimes more profound like this one
(31 May '13, 02:05)
ru bis
@flowsurfer I wish I could teach you to lucid dream. I'm concerned about you. You've been a member for 5 months & nothing has changed. Perhaps you should seek counseling. I can almost guarantee you Wellbutrin/Zyban will create vivid dreams. I know quite a few people over the yrs who have taken W as an antidepressant, for addictions - cigarettes & gambling & to lose weight & they all talked about their dreams. Vivid dreams are a very common side effe. I'm going to share the 2 worst *
(31 May '13, 03:32)
ele
(31 May '13, 03:34)
ele
** After talking to the pharmacist about which med might be causing this - she immediately said W. I'm not telling you to get a rx for W - that would be for a HP to decide along with you. If you decide to go on an AD; this is prob a "good" one cause it does not affect libido. I know people who used it for only 3 months & it made a world of difference. I really think you should consider talking to someone dear.
(31 May '13, 03:37)
ele
@flowsurfer as for this comment to me "The guy explicitly said he knew he was dreaming" I'm a very light sleeper & often times I know I'm dreaming & yes, you could consider that to be a lucid dream - the trick is to control it.
(31 May '13, 03:40)
ele
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I am going to flag this question. Why? Because it is wrong to promote the use of a drug-and nicotine is a powerful and addicting drug-for something other than that drug was intended. I do not think that Inward Quest should allow us to write about misusing drugs to promote anything, including lucid dreaming. Why are you so desperate to dream lucidly? Now there's a question you should be asking. Do you think that being powerful in your dreams will make you powerful in your daily life??? Wade dreams lucidly all the time, but I do not see him with a chain saw during the day, conquering bad guys. (One of his lucid dreams.) Sorry, but this question is a bad one. Jaianniah My interest in lucid dreaming is to help me enter the feeling of the wish fulfilled and in so doing change my life. While I am not prejudiced against drugs, especially simple and legal stimulants like nicotine, you have to understand that I am suicidal and this is keeping me from giving up on life. Nicotine has been used for this purpose for a long time; shamans use tobacco (where nicotine comes from) to "contact spirits". Nicotine patches are not addictive as there is no spike in nicotine.
(28 May '13, 15:15)
flowsurfer
Nicotine is also not my first choice; if you live in a freer country, you'll probably do better with a combination of galantamine and choline (Alpha GPC in particular). I've even had similar results from megadosing on vitamin B6 but I can't find anything above RDA anymore. I've been reading and I think it might be worth a try to take some piracetam and fish oil; it's just a problem of cost because it starts to get expensive to take more than one thing.
(28 May '13, 15:37)
flowsurfer
The chain saw dream, a man was trying to cut me up. I was fighting him until I just decided to cut myself in half and then look at the bad guy while saying, "Ooo was that suppose to hurt?" The bad guy screamed and ran away! It was like trying to cut light in half. LOL.
(28 May '13, 20:58)
Wade Casaldi
I had a chainsaw dream recently. There were a few bad guys and they were telling a group of victims which they were preparing to cut to pieces: "Don't resist or we'll make it hurt even more". That felt very evil. The dream ended with me falling after a gunfight which I lost because my bullets didn't do any damage.
(28 May '13, 23:29)
flowsurfer
The dream I had the other night I almost became lucid because there were these kids showing me how they could breathe underwater. I woke up instead.
(28 May '13, 23:30)
flowsurfer
@flowsurfer you need realize, their bullets can't harm you! Their weapons can't harm you! You are still alive thus what they did had no affect on you. I will tell you, I was killed many times in my dreams. Each time I realized I was still alive, they had no effect. Then in my dreams one day I realized I couldn't be killed!
(29 May '13, 01:24)
Wade Casaldi
@Wade Casaldi Sure, but that requires me to actually remember I'm dreaming or at least have some kind of critical thinking operating. Usually, I can't even "think" in dreams, it's just a flow of images, events, scenes, sounds, sometimes outright random.
(29 May '13, 05:23)
flowsurfer
hi @Jai for me it's just curiosity, a fun experience to try ... i'm not really expecting anything in particular, and to protect myself from any eventual nasties, i do what i usually do in such unknown situations, i ask my pendulum ... the answer is positive so i'm going in, wish me luck :)
(29 May '13, 13:24)
ru bis
I have to say @ru bis, you're a lot more eager and willing to experiment than me. It took me a while to convince myself it was OK. In fact, I would leave the house determined to buy a patch and then when I reached the pharmacy I wouldn't have the courage to walk in.
(29 May '13, 16:39)
flowsurfer
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No,I have not tried a nicotine patch, but if you want to experience lucid dreaming try Mugwort.Love and Light.
How does Mugwort work? It's not easily available (as far as I can tell) so I can't easily try it. People seem to have good experiences with it but do you know what the mechanism of action is?
I dont know where you are flowsurfer,but it is available over the internet.Most people either smoke it or make tea with it before bedtime,it really doesnt produce a high.
I do not support using any drugs to have lucid dreams.
@flowsurfer Try googling crystals and lucid dreaming - I have used malachite under the pillow (not for lucid dreaming, just to promote insightful dreaming and dream recall) and it was incredible. I've seen danburite mentioned among others.
@Catherine that's a good idea. I've been sleeping with crystals again & my sleep has been very peaceful..
I tried the 21mg patch. It had no apparent effect on my dreams. In fact, all I remember is a small fragment from a dream, I was looking at a book that would shift from english to chinese and then to a translation of the chinese. The only thing the patch did was make me feel sick once I woke up. I'm not sure I care to try this again.
@flowsurfer Perhaps the store will give you a refund.
@flowsurfer i like to work on the principle of homeopathy, that is, the more diluted the product, the higher the energy vibration and the more effect it has ... you may find that a 7mg patch is more effective than 21mg ... eventually you could try a soul energy patch, that is, a small piece of card on which you write the word nicotine, wait three days before using or valorize it using a decagon
I'll try again but under more controlled circumstances. For instance, instead of using the patch the whole night I'll do a "Wake Back to Bed" and use it for only a couple of hours. This should cut down on the nausea. I would rather not have to deal with that again but I'll survive if I do but I'm not very eager to try again considering the zero results. The store isn't giving me a refund.
@flowsurfer did you try?
@flowsurfer just thinkin' about you & remembered this - if I eat before I go to bed I usually have unusual dreams & when I was young & had dairy (milk or ice cream) before bed I usually always had disturbing dreams. You should consider using crystals too.