So Stingray. It sounds as if you're saying that those who can't afford an automobile or some other product or service should be given one because they can't afford it? Are you kidding me? A service, whether it be information or a product created by someone has every right to ask for an exchange of value for that service or product.

Your words...

"and quite often it gets mixed in with some humanitarian type of motive in selling the knowledge to you - as though they are doing you a service"

They ARE providing a service. How are they not.

Life today requires money to survive. Do you think that those who share information that enhances life have some Cosmic Being write them a check every month? Surely not. Or do you think The Law of Attraction just "poofs" it to them out of thin air?

They provide a contribution and they have every right to ask for and expect an exchange of value for the value they provide.

Do you get paid for your job (the contribution you provide) or do you tell your boss on payday..."Nah, don't worry about it boss. I got you covered. Chances are no you don't.

I would hope that you value what you give enough to "expect" a return for whatever you provide. Maybe you do, maybe you don't. The point is when you give something of value you can expect to receive. But you also have to be open and receptive to receive and accept it when it shows up.

People who put their heart, soul and lives into their work deserve to receive back as much as anyone whether they have a "spiritually based" message behind it or not.

Those who have an entitlement mentality perhaps don't see things that way, but those who understand how the Universe and the creative process are structured...upon giving AND receiving, also understand that giving is a requirement FIRST in order to receive. They understand that an exchange of value is necessary. If you don't plant a seed you don't receive a harvest. That's pretty basic, plain and simple to me.

Entitlement mentalities will stay stuck where they are. They cling to and hold on to what they have fearing they'll lose it. The takers of the world will take and take, take and take more wondering why they're stuck. They're not stuck. They're receiving in proportion to what they are giving which is nothing. Nothing right or wrong with that, but it doesn't harmonize with what they want or how the process works whether you understand it from a scientific or a spiritual perspective. I think you guys are missing the boat. Just an opinion.

Edited and moved to comments above where it should have been placed intially.

Hi Folks,

I came across this thread as a result of an e-mail I received from one of my coaching clients who read it and passed the url on to me.

First I’ll say that I don’t normally expose myself to, nor do I usually participate in such ridiculous discussions as what I’ve read here. After reading the various posts and “perspectives” I just couldn’t help but respond.

First of all I think it’s important to say that since I’m well aware that different people “perceive” things in different ways, this response isn’t being posted out of anger, judgment or designed to go against the will or belief of anyone in here. It is however, a very direct response based on my “perception” of things. It doesn’t make it “true or untrue.” It doesn’t make it right or wrong.” It’s just my view and perception of reality and the discussion taking place here.

And Stingray, although the postings of Back2Basics REALLY weren’t Chuck Danes, I am him. Thought I’d share that up front and make you aware of that fact, so there’s no room for misunderstanding. :)

Since I was notified of this discussion and since I’ve noticed that I and my “work” are the main focus of the subject matter here…and it "appears" that my motives and/or intention “appear to be” somewhat under attack or at the least being questioned or judged in some way, shape or form and/or my work being “devalued” as Graham mentioned, I thought I’d interject and “share” my perspective.

Free of charge of course. :)

Also StingRay, what I share may (and may not) assist you to see that your comment…

“To me, the main motivation behind that site appears to be to sell you 'The Seven Hidden Keys To Conscious Creation' for $149 (with some Fast Action Bonuses if you act quickly).”…

…may not BE as true as it appears or that you “perceive it” to be.

Again, it’s simply a matter of “perception.” I honor and respect yours and understand you have every right to express it, but it doesn’t make it “right or true.” It also doesn’t make it “wrong or untrue.” It makes it yours. That’s all.

Those who are “truly awake” understand that your perceptions and views of the world and others creates your reality in the world. Maybe how things “appear” and are being perceived by you, is due to the fact that you haven’t made the choice to explore the more than 7 thousand pages of “freely provided” information that have required more than six years and thousands and thousands of hours of focus and “work” to write and create. And again, all of which are provided and contributed to the world for free and which “attracts”, provides value and contributes to well over 2 million people globally per year.

Which leads into addressing the comment from Graham that follows…

“The people who would probably most need the information are the ones who probably can't afford it in the first place.”

I totally agree with that Graham which is PRECISELY why there are 7 thousand pages of information FREELY provided for those who CAN”T afford it yet are “seeking it” and "attracted" to it. I provide that 7,000 pages FREE of charge.

First point made.

Now I’ll address the rest and provide my “perception” of things as those of you in the forum have. Before doing so, it’s important to understand that I do so not out of anger, resentment or judgment, although very directly. Should you choose to read it in it’s entirety the reason I do that will or at least "should" become clear.

Although lengthy, It really boils down to Vee’s statement which was SO WISELY and CORRECTLY stated…

“Both parties are doing what feels right to them, so it is unfair to be judgmental or to criticize any of these peoples’ values and beliefs.”

Everyone has the right, the free will and the ability to perceive and express themselves however they choose. That’s one of the greatest gifts we could have ever received. We each, without exception have the free will to choose our paths in life and as a result, experience life in “tangible and measurable” as well as “intangible” form as a result of that choice or choices. And we can do that however and whichever way we choose.

Isn’t that cool? It’s exciting and CAN BE extremely empowering and fulfilling!!

It CAN BE that is, IF we choose to do so consciously, intentionally and purposefully. Choosing to DO IT any other way has many "perceiving and experiencing" anything but the excitement and empowerment in a "desirable" kind of way. Yet it's simply a choice to do things for the part "unconsciously." I learned a long time ago after many many years of “path walking” as I now refer to it as, that how and what we perceive doesn’t make it “true”…it only makes it “true” for those who choose to see and perceive things that way. And whatever they “choose” is reflected in the various aspects of their lives based on the choices they make. And that CAN lead to an exciting, empowering and fulfilling quality of life.

It doesn’t matter if you choose to study what the masters since antiquity have taught, delve deeply into the findings of 21st century scientists, study psychophysiological functions, or explore the deeper aspects of nature for that matter. Our perception and views of the world creates the experience in OUR world.

In the same way, science, spiritual teachings and the simple observation of nature ALL reveal the simplicity and perfection of how life works when you choose to allow your mind to move “outside the box” of indoctrination and sociological programming that ALL are exposed to.

But text, science and physical observation are also “intellectual approaches.” They're limited. Nothing compares to “personally tapping into” and experiencing the simplicity, perfection and awe that exists outside of that. Regardless if you acquire the information intellectually or through some profound experience, the same basic and fundamental truth always prevails...

"There’s ALWAYS a “Higher Truth” than someone “perceives.” We get to choose how much higher or lower we’ll go in life and it’s always determined by whatever “truth” we choose to hold and engage ourselves in individually.

I Love that about life. There’s ALWAYS more to learn and explore REGARDLESS of how far you progress in life and aside from how much you’ve learned and explored or “claim” to know.

What I would like to say is that in my years of coaching and contributing to so many people globally and choosing to direct my time, focus, energy and my entire life for the past several years, in assisting others who are open to and “resonate with” my work and who also “attracted to” my work…with the “intention” and “desire” to enhance their quality of life, I’ve found that many who profess to be “so spiritual and/or knowledgeable” or are in the process of learning and growing spiritually, often, for any infinite number of varying reasons, somehow “perceive and honestly believe” that because those who choose to teach, share and contribute what they’ve come to understand about life and provide a means for those who benefit from it to exchange “value”, that their intentions are often questioned and judgments are made and labels placed on them by others.

In other words many “perceive” that those who contribute value shouldn’t ask and/or provide a means for those who “take” and benefit from that contribution for an exchange of value.

I’ll quote Graham here…

“Good points raised Stingray. If these guys are so hot at manifesting cash they should be happy to share their knowledge for free. The fact that they obviously need to sell this knowledge d values what they have to say. Pity because it may well contain much truth. – Graham Cook Nov 2 at 13:23

So, allow me to address that Graham...bluntly and head on. First of all, I personally don’t “claim” to be “so hot” at manifesting anything. If you’ve seen or read that somewhere, let me know. I’d like to know and see where you read that.

I teach what I’ve come to know and understand through experience. A very broad and diverse range of experience over many years of seeking, exploring and experiencing. I do so with the "HEARTFELT intention" that those who “seek out” or are “attracted to” my “work” might experience greater results for themselves. I’ll reiterate…That comes from many years of PERSONAL experience.

I’ve walked a lot of paths my friend. I’ve experienced the highs and lows of life just as anyone does. In fact, as I often share…”The more I come to know and understand, the more I realize just how little I know and understand in the bigger scheme of things.” But what I DO know and what I teach is a “profoundly powerful and effective approach” for enhancing quality of life. I don't claim ANYWHERE that MY WAY is THE WAY. I make it VERY CLEAR that it has worked for myself as well as many around the world who express and share their gratitude for my contribution.

I’ve experienced poverty and I’ve experienced what most “perceive” as being wealth which is nothing more than monetary and material plenty. I’ve experienced pain and I’ve experienced indescribable joy. I’ve experienced debilitating fear and touched “Unconditional Love” and the indescribable peace and assurance that doing so reveals. Without going into ALL of it, let’s just say I’ve experienced MUCH through my life.

And what I experience now and for the most part FREELY distribute to a global audience is direction based on experience that enables and empowers others to move toward what I refer to as Real Wealth, Real Success, Real Happiness and Real Freedom. And the reason I do is because I learned from those times when I wasn’t “experiencing it.”

And today, I’m both proud and honored to say that I live it, breathe it and walk it every single hour of every single day. I do what I LOVE to do, I contribute to others in a way that I love with the underlying intention of Love because I LOVE to assist, enable and empower MANY others who benefit from my “work” and as a result I receive both intangible as well as tangible and measurable results that I love.

And I do the best I’m able at this point in my life to assist others who are drawn to what I share in experiencing the same.

Do you somehow see something wrong or flawed with that? If you do, that’s certainly OK, but it most definitely doesn’t make how you see things “right or true.”

Here’s what I find interesting (and have personally found to be quite ineffective in creating and receiving desirable results I might add) about those who “claim” to be so knowledgeable and/or “spiritually minded” who choose this way of “BEING, seeing and DOING things.”

When what is taught has anything to do, in any way shape or form with a “spiritual message” these so called teachers and/or “spiritually minded people” or those who hold beliefs and make assumptions or judgments that those who receive compensation for their “work” have “ill intentions” or are somehow “wrong” or “scammers” or salesman or any other number of “labels” that the “unconscious and unaware” come up with…they somehow in their own minds truly perceive and believe that asking for an exchange of value for the contribution provided is in some way, shape or form “wrong” or unspiritual.

Are you serious?

If someone is “truly focused spiritually” and “truly understands” they also understand that there is NOTHING…NO –THING that is NOT spiritual. Yet the self-professed spiritual mind places judgments and labels on those who they “perceive” as being something else.

That’s amazing to me. I have to laugh. Literally, I have to laugh out loud. Not because it’s funny, because it truly is sad in a very real sense. It’s sad for those who choose that way of viewing the world and sad for those who listen and buy into what someone “perceives” yet still have a sincere desire to experience a greater quality of life for themselves. I truly feel for those people…ALL of them. Yet I also understand they have the right and the ability to perceive and do what they choose and I accept that. I have no labels or judgments for that or about them. They get to choose that and I honor that choice.

Yet at the same time, in MANY cases, it’s their very shortsighted view and choices that keeps what they “desire” from them. And many put on this front of how spiritual they are…how knowledgeable they are…how successful they are, when the “real truth” is, they can’t pay the electric bill.

There are also those of course, who for any number of reasons are satisfied with their results, who are completely content and happy where they are. And that’s great. I love that for those people. I celebrate with them.

But those that “truly are” happy, content and satisfied aren’t making assumptions and judgments about, nor attempting to downgrade the intentions of others who they’ve never met and wouldn’t know if they saw them face to face.

Because that way of “being” in and of itself keeps Real Happiness, Real Contentment, Real Success, Real Wealth and Real Prosperity and above all Real Freedom from every being experienced by those who CHOOSE to do things that way. NOT others. If they choose this way of "BEING" while “claiming” that they’re happy content and fulfilled in their lives, they’re not telling the truth. They’re lying to themselves and/or are simply attempting to convey and convince others how happy, successful and fulfilled they are, when the “Higher Truth” is, it’s nothing more than Bullshit.

Or maybe they truly think and believe they are simply because they don’t understand the fullness of REAL happiness, harmony and fulfillment and Think that where they are and what they’re experiencing is as “Good as it gets.”

They simply “don’t know what they don’t know.” The reason for that, more times than not, is simply because they haven’t experienced anything greater and are unaware that what there is to experience is “Infinite” in nature.

And in many cases they have no desire to move forward to experience more in life and that’s good too. I honor and respect that. But at the same time they choose a perception and for any number of reasons judge and label others due to their “limited and shortsighted” views. They simply don’t allow the perceptions, choices and actions of others to be OK. They choose to judge, making snide, uninformed comments and placing labels on those who see things differently.

Why would anybody in this forum do that unless it was to in some way, shape or form with the intention of elevating themselves? To let others “think” they’re right or better or more well intentioned than someone else.

That's not a judgment, it's an observation that I ask about because I "perceive" that's what's taking place and I and others who contribute are the subject matter.

They tend to judge and label others who don’t see things their way. So they have these ridiculous discussions in forums ALL OVER the internet about how someone who has done or is doing something that doesn’t align and harmonize with their “perception” and/or opinion of how things “should be” done based on their view, and label them as somehow “wrong” or imply that their intentions are “bad” or “less than sincere” or whatever other disempowering bullshit they choose to engage in which is spread around and intensified, infecting others with their short sighted mind viruses.

I think it’s also important to state here that I’m not some preacher or humanitarian that claims to be a philanthropist. There’s no cross placed in front of Enlightened Journey Enterprises claiming to be a non-profit organization. Nor do I claim ANYWHERE on my site to be that. Do I GIVE and freely contribute much to those who need it and who I feel and decide who “truly” need it? Absolutely. But that’s MY business and my choice, not anybody else s. Who are YOU to tell me what or when I should give or not give? Are you “truly that self-righteous?

This discussion brings back memories of my years engaged in structured religion. More specifically those claiming to be so righteous and spiritual yet their message as well as discussions like this clearly reveal to those who see through it…who choose to transcend the sheeple people mentality…who see the “wolves dressed in sheep’s clothing.”

Who are you to judge that…REALLY…think about it. If I chose to “think and perceive” as you do, I could say, “I think YOU should get your ass over to Enlightened Journey Enterprises and give me a hundred hours of FREE labor or you’re going to be “wrong” or your intentions judged. Would you do it? Would you “freely contribute” your time, energy and attention and assist us in reaching 4-5-6 or 10 million people this year? What would you think about that? Would you think I’m right? More than likely not.

First of all I wouldn’t ask nor “expect” that from you or anyone else. I understand EVERYONE must walk their own path and do as they feel led to do. To be who they are without judging or labeling them as wrong or “ill intentioned” or whatever, in my intent to elevate myself or my insecurity.

Let’s REALLY “clear the air” about some things here…

I’m someone who teaches principles that I KNOW based on years of experience provide PROFOUND and DESIRABLE results. Do I use spiritual writings and what the masters of the past taught to help convey my message. YES I do. I do that so the religious and/or spiritually minded and/or those who have been indoctrinated with bullshit their whole lives by those who “claim” to know and are so quick to tell them what’s “right and wrong” and what God’s Will for their lives might be are revealed for what it is…which as I’ve mentioned is pure Bullshit.

Do I use quotes form the masters left to us in the way of spiritual texts and writings to assist others to see and understand what the masters we’re attempting to convey based on my OWN "perceptions" and experience? Sure I do. So those who need to hear it that way will GET IT and perhaps start DOING what the masters shared and from my perspective made VERY VERY clear.

Do I use scientific discoveries which I’ve spent many years and countless hours exploring discovering and translating so the novice can understand it? YES I do. I do that so people who need that scientific approach can best benefit from what I have to contribute.

Do I use the simple observation of nature to explain in the best way “I KNOW” how simple it is to create their lives by design rather than by default as MOST do? YES I do. So those who need to hear my message in that way can understand the simplicity and perfection of how nature and the process of creation was designed and continues to expand, grow and sustain itself as it has for the past 14 BILLION years.

What I provide for FREE Stingray isn’t a half a page of steps that required ten minutes to put together claiming "they work" so people can get what they want. That half page of FREELY provided information gives you the right to question someone who has spent 3 decades exploring, experiencing and sharing and asks for an exchange of value for that time and experience?

Do you honestly think that your few steps listed on half a page enable a vast audience, all of whom have varying “perceptions” and a need to hear and see things in different ways, provide EVERYONE with the understanding of how to seek out and receive whatever it might be that they're looking for?

If you do, you have a very limited and short sighted understanding of human comprehension and people as a whole. I commend, respect and honor you for providing what you do for FREE, but based on what I’ve seen that you so “proudly” point people to, certainly didn’t require your heart and soul and six years of your life combined with thousands of hours of “work” and many decades of experience.

Yet you choose to question, judge and label others who have committed their life???? Give me and those seekers who would read and believe your bullshit a break.

Here’s my point…

What I CONTRIBUTE has taken MANY years to acquire and create. There have been many experiences since which I continually update and share FREELY. I also provide those who don't PERCEIVE the VALUE of free with a means to exchange value which in their mind provides what is shared REAL VALUE. In the minds of many FREE has no perceived value. Do you GET THAT?

I should GIVE IT ALL to you or someone else because YOU think I should? I don’t think so. I’ll give it to who I choose but NOT because someone posts such bullshit in a forum and based on their limited and short sighted perspective questions my intention, integrity or whatever else you might be questioning, seeing and "perceiving" as ”wrong” or “flawed” because of the way I “choose” to do things.

That’s fine of course. You can do what you will. We each have the right and the ability to choose our own paths and “perceive” life however we choose. But let me assure you, it’s not a mindset, way of “BEING” nor a way of doing things that will enable those who truly DO desire to experience an extraordinary quality of life to receive it.

And here’s a very VITAL point and what’s TRULY important about all this…

The judgments and labels don’t affect or impact the person or people that are being judged or labeled. It only impacts and affects those who are DOING the judging and labeling!!! The Law of Attraction NEVER misses. You “attract” what YOU put out and it NEVER misses.

So, although I am addressing this quite bluntly and head on, I’m not angry or judging you or anyone else for having a perception. I honor and respect those ALWAYS. I’ve learned over the years to accept them “unconditionally” in fact. It doesn’t mean I won’t address them when I “believe” they are misleading and/or limiting someone’s quality of life. And normally I don’t and won’t address them or engage unless someone asks or is attracted to my work and choose to read or listen to my "perception or" and/or experiences IN life.

But sine this forum conversation is about me and my work as well as my approach and perhaps my "intention", I think it’s only fair that I address the comments I’ve read here. Not for my benefit but for those who I “perceive” are hurting themselves by coming to and reading and more importantly “believing” short sighted and obviously ignorant interactions like this.

And the fact that these comments are here and this discussion is taking place, isn’t really the issue at all.

My REAL concern is that you mention “teaching people” about this information for free. The inevitable result based on your “sharing” here, is you choose to spread the “label and judgment of others way of doing things” which can NEVER EVER enable and empower ANYONE to “attract” and/or create a greater quality of life for themselves.

And YOU are going to teach them? What you’re going to TEACH them for FREE is how to have and experience the same quality of results that YOU are getting through your "unconscious" choices. What you’re going to “teach them” through this "approach" is how to walk the long, slow and hard path as they look for and seek out what they’re “truly” looking for which is Love and Acceptance.

THAT’S what you’re going to teach them “self-righteous, judgmental, enlightened and “give it to them FREE” because I see it that way people.

MY personal perspective is that you should KEEP your FREE advice to yourself if it contains the quality of message I’ve read in here. It’s not worth FREE even. Quite the opposite. It can and will only hurt people in a tangible sense.

I so agree with justallowing…

"The message in here misses the mark…BIG TIME." With the exception of a few comments where someone was "thinking for themselves and addressed this nonsense about "free", questioned the self righteous people in here asking how it's different than anything else.

Real teachers who make a "positive and desirable difference"…the effective kind of teachers that TRULY assist people don’t just talk Law of Attraction talk and tell others how some Cosmic Being writes them a check because they give. They walk the walk. They receive and experience extraordinary results that are reflected through and come back by way of the contribution and value they provide. They GET what they choose just as those who get less than they want are in the same way, GETTING what they’re “choosing” regardless of how “unconscious and unaware” they are of what they’re choosing. And WHAT they're getting can be known simply by observing their chosen way of BEING and DOING as a result of those choices.

In the same way those who “get less” than they “claim” they want, “get back and receive” based on the quality and quantity of the contribution they make. They receive back in exact proportion to what they choose to give and put out there.

Sometimes ten fold…sometimes a hundred fold…sometimes a thousand fold.

And you can “say” all you’d like about how fulfilled you are and how you get what you want to those who are blind enough to believe it, yet the fact that you judge, label and downplay those who don’t “see or do” things the way YOU think they should be done, clearly reveals that your claims are bullshit. Or what you are receiving is FAR LESS than you're "aware" is available to you.

It’s a projection that returns in kind and quality a mirrored image of what you’re choosing. And that’s OK. That’s your choice. But don’t call yourself a teacher who “knows” how to assist others. It hurts others. It's detrimental to the well being of others.

And it never fails. It never wavers. And it never will. The only thing that wavers or changes in that process is the kind and quality of WHAT they receive. I don’t think people will LIKE the kind and quality of WHAT they receive should they choose to heed and follow the label and judgment message I’ve read in here. I’m quite SURE of that fact.

Are there those out there spreading a message based on what they've read in a few books and calling themselves “experts”? Sure there are. Are there those out there that teach garbage” that’s based on airy fairy nonsense and borders on metaphysical malpractice? Sure there are. That’s not a judgment, that’s an observation. It happens and it’s out there.

But that is an individuals choice and I personally choose not to judge or label anyone because of that. And I've found that works VERY well in comparison to the opposite.

Are there MANY self-professed “Teachers” and “Masters” and “Law of Attraction “gurus” out there who have become so prevalent in recent years, who “claim” to know it all and who say that you can simply kick back in your easy chair and just visualize your dream life into being and somehow think that they will have their “dream life” magically dropped in their lap. Sure there are. And there are just as many if not more who choose to follow such jibberish who will never have much in the way of “tangible and measurable” results long term NOR will they ever experience REAL Freedom.

I don’t judge and label them either. That’s not for me to do. They can do that if they choose. They’ll receive as they give. The kind and quality of what they receive will reflect, perfectly, precisely, simply and without fail just as they choose to put out. And that’s OK, if that’s what they choose. It’s where they are and it’s perfect just the way it is. Nothing “wrong” with them. That’s their choice. They just won’t get what they "truly want" by “doing things” that way. They might make some money but money isn’t what people want. The “unconscious, asleep and unaware” might “think so”, but at some point they realize that’s NOT what they were after, yet “thought” it was.

Here’s my point folks…

I made a choice many years ago…a very conscious, intentional and purposeful choice to give and contribute on a global scale to those who were attracted to my work and who possess a “sincere desire” to enhance their quality of life. I reach millions of people per year. I contribute and provide IMMENSE value to those millions EVERY year. I also spend the majority of my waking hours doing so in a way that I know enhances people’s lives.

And I receive A LOT of expressions of gratitude and appreciation for what I contribute.

I FREELY provide a quantity and a depth of information that enables those who are open, willing, receptive and who will DO something with what I’ve spent more than 6 years and thousands of hours creating with ANYTHING and EVERYTHING they could possible need to create a life of purpose, meaning and YES…PROSPERITY of both a “tangible and measurable” as well as “intangible” form.

Do I claim it’s THE WAY and the ONLY way? Absolutely not. But IT IS a way that has proven to be PROFOUNDLY effective for ME and many others and it’s yielded extraordinary and extremely fulfilling results both TANGIBLY and INTANGIBLY. And those results ARE extraordinary in both tangible and INTANGIBLE ways in relation to what the vast majority of people I connect with are receiving and experiencing. Not because they can’t experience the same. They simply have to “choose” to do so. That’s what I DO. Assist people in CHOOSING consciously and intentionally. AND I might add, what I receive and how I choose to receive it, aligns and harmonizes with what I desire for my life and those I love and care for.

I don’t spend an hour or 2 a day posting in forums bashing, judging and labeling others who contribute and ask for an exchange of value and “under the radar” boastfully claim how I’m somehow better or more spiritual or more "right" because “I’ll do this for free.” I don’t slam and warn people to “watch out for this “ill intentioned scammer” who sells stuff.”

Why would you people that are engaging in this nonsense do so? Is it benefiting you? Is it moving you toward what you truly want in and out of life? I can assure you, it’s not. Not in any way shape or form.

This completes "my thoughts" that were c