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Hello all, My question stems from a certain passage from "Message of a Master" by John McDonald, which I quote here in full:
Now, based on my general understanding of LOA and the principles we discuss here, I would dismiss this passage as ridiculous... If... It weren't for the fact that I have myself experienced this phenomenon many times. It seems that when a manifestation "feels" like it is about to unfold in physical reality--either there are lots of synchronicities, or physical things seems to be lining up for the manifestation--then people in my life begin asking me, even prodding me about the subject that I am trying to manifest. For instance, they ask "how it is going" with a certain endeavor that they knew I had been involved in, or about a certain condition that I was trying to change. "What's happening with that? Is that situation any better?" Etc.. Up until a year ago (when I finally learned my lesson), I would respond to these people...either out of a desire not to lie, or to not seem like I was being secretive or withholding information. Two times in particular, when I gave in and mentioned the positive conditions that seemed to be unfolding, the consequences were disastrous...at least to my smaller, physical-concerned mind at the time. By disastrous, I mean that one person was seriously hurt, and in another instance, negative events unfolded which impacted my life for the next six months. In another case, a major opportunity seemed to be unfolding. When I was asked about it, I mentioned what was going on, and within 12 hours, the entire opportunity fell through in a very stark manner. After that, I learned my lesson. Within the last few months, I have had many similar situations where coincidentally, people ask me about a subject involving something I have been treating in a manifesting experiment. Now I keep my mouth shut, or reply with indefinite answers ("It's hard to say"..."not sure about that"). In a few instances, this has provoked irritation or suspicion from people, but I don't really care about that, knowing the consequences of acting otherwise. There have been other threads on this site discussing the necessity (or helpfulness) of not talking about manifestations: But none, to my knowledge, about the "tempting" phenomenon. The only place I have read about this is in "Message of a Master." Does anyone else have any experience with this, and know why it occurs? An adversarial relationship with the Universe just doesn't make any sense to me, and yet I can't seem to find a good explanation as to why this sort of thing would happen. My only idea is that maybe this is Liam's Lazy Universe Theory in action, i.e., the Universe attempting to thwart a manifestation from occurring so it doesn't have to do any work.
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Hi lozenge123 Do you realize that the interplay between the "outer" and the "inner" mind is being beautifully revealed within your question as you are asking it? You said; "I would dismiss this as ridiculous, if it weren't for the fact that I have myself experienced this phenomenon many times" You are looking for the authentication of this by trying to verify its validity through the words of others. The others are the "outer" phenomenon. Your own awakening and awareness, or shall we say your inquisitiveness is the "inner" phenomenon. Within yourself, you are awakening to things that are not a product of others wisdom, for they are the product of your own awakening inner wisdom. Yet you are not accustomed to being comfortable with this wisdom, for it has not been authenticated by the "outer" experience, which has so far kept you "safe" in your "knowingness" Here is the paradox and the secret to the inner experience. The inner experience is not the analytical mind. If you are analyzing, you are on the outside of your own single point of focus of creation. Deep within, you are in control of YOUR experience of everything that is unfolding around you. In that place you cannot think. You can only know. It is belief by choice, guided by instinct. It is an instinctive decision of choice. The outer experience responds to, and aligns with this inner decision of choice. When you second-guess the inner experience by trying to verify its validity through the analytical mind, the force of creation from the inner to the outer mind is muddied just like the in-coming tide reversing the direction of flow of the water in a river meeting the ocean. The inner experience is driven by instinct, which is, shall we say the "voice of God?" The inner experience can change according to the needs of the individual without any need for explaining or authenticating why the change was necessary. Because you are not choosing it, but rather you are allowing it to happen through you. The analytical side likes to understand the inner mind because it thinks IT is the inner mind. It is not Every conversation you have with yourself and with others in thoughts, words, ideas are all the product of the outer mind. The outer mind does not get any original ideas. It only analyzes the instinctive guidance that is awakened within the inner mind. It is incapable of "original thought" It can only analyze what is handed down from the inner mind with data that is a product of what has happened so far. The inner mind exists in the future potential of creation and the outer mind exists in the past memory of creation. The outer mind is incapable of validating the future potential of creation. It is only capable of comparing against what has already existed and dismisses everything that has not happened so far. It does not have the benefit of the confidence of instinct. That is why the opinions of others are incapable of validating the potential success of any instinctive desire that awakens within you. A regular dose of inner silence is the only thing that can balance the over analytical existence that we are all living right now. If you use your analytical mind to authenticate your inner guidance, you will ultimately end up feeling lost because you have given up the only source that can keep you in alignment with the person you have chosen to be in this lifetime. The analytical side will rob you of your inner source of guidance. It seems to me that the author of the "Message of a master" is trying to awaken you to this phenomenon. The author may also be hinting about the "Mind Parasite" phenomenon here, which also can be weakened with prolonged inner silence. Wonderful answer, @The Traveller. Thanks for the brain massage. ;)
(15 Dec '12, 01:30)
Grace
Thank you Grace. I enjoyed trying to quantify these subtle and flexible concepts before they could become rigid, loud, and inflexible sentences. So I was also trying to float my awareness within the brain buzz.
(15 Dec '12, 18:01)
The Traveller
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wel adversarial mean working against, or competing. that is how it is on the outside in this world. but the solution is harmony. but many will not accept this. so basically you will encounter a problem with the outer and the inner or with your self and other. onless you can be in harmony with the level of understanding of the outer. and not give more info that they can hold up or understand at the moment. the little ego cannot accept it. that is why it is said to lock it up with in you. the ego why it rebels to hold power and controll and to try to remain the boss of the house,and it cannot accept the truth. you see the ego is a defense agaisnt the darkness coming from outside. it should not be the boss of the house but only a guard. the light that you are is the boss of the house. but the ego see everything from the ouside as a potential problem that needs to be worked against. and the ego becomes the darkness because it is made to fight against it and after dealing with it for a long while it becomes it. what the ego needs is to find the truth that not everything is dark and that working in harmony and truth is possible, it is not that the ego is not doing is job it is that sometime it is counter productive when harmony is possible. update: here is a man that have started to walk on the water and seing the light.yet he did not cross the last door.so he believe that god is in people what he is seing is him self made in the image of god.. can you agree with what he say? or does the outer mind need to block something? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2arOqXpKNFw @white tiger, thanks for your response. I hope I didn't muddle my question semantically by using the term "adverserial"...it was my way of describing what I felt was McDonald's way of describing it in Message of a Master. I'm honestly completely perplexed about this phenomenon, and am just looking for some insight. Leaving notions of "adversarial", "competition", out of it, what do make of the "tempting" phenomenon? Have you had experience with such a thing?
(11 Dec '12, 00:13)
lozenge123
@lozenge123 of course you see it every day.when interacting with people. each time they say to you do not try to show me annything. or when they hang up on something and do not want to see or hear. then you know where they have stopped their understanding. and what they focus on. then you know that you better stop the conversation there. they are not willing to understand and learn more. as for adverserial i think you defined the word properly.
(11 Dec '12, 00:42)
white tiger
@lozenge123 also sometime it is better to with hold information.sometime people are not ready for it. example: you would not go give to primitive people the way to make atom bomb. you know that their would be accident and miss usage of that knowledge. it is better to let them grow in understanding and wisdom. so yes sometime it is better to stop the conversation where the understanding as stop. and let them grow. when they have learn more they will come talk to you about it.
(11 Dec '12, 01:27)
white tiger
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the adversarial relationship as it has been said, know they self and the water and light will become one.it is like the sun seing is reflection on the water because of conflict and duality he believes that he is only the water and that the light is talking to him,to help him solve the matter of the mind and heart.once conflict and duality is solved in truth the water and the light becomes one. then the sun know that he is himself.and was himself all along before the division came.only then can he enter the last door with out fear. i am.(>0<)
(13 Dec '12, 16:42)
white tiger
know thyself and then, little distortions stirred from anger nor fear awareness freed from underdeveloped rational faculities will minds heart see unmediated consciousness or know right intuition
(14 Dec '12, 16:45)
fred
what be it then that we see or strive for when the water and light become one
(14 Dec '12, 16:47)
fred
there is no more striving in your self everything is solved. the only striving left is in the duality of this world. because it is not solved for other. so you help them if you can. and if you can't it is their free will and you are not responsible of it. yet you experience and enjoy this world and learn more.
(14 Dec '12, 21:01)
white tiger
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@lozenge123 wow you quoted 2 of my questions, he he. Anyway, I think this might be something like a "test": http://www.inwardquest.com/questions/11945/how-do-i-deal-with-something-i-really-dont-want-to-do-until-something-better-comes-along#11954 Not sure whether you have read it before though, but it's the closest I could find and remember at the moment
@Kakaboo - Thanks for the link...I had read it before, but it was a good time for a re-read. :) It is possible that the "tempting" is a test...but if so, it certainly seems to be in a very different manner than the type Stingray is describing in that link--and I have experienced those quite a few times. There is no accompanying "emotion" or vibrational feeling associated with these temptings. It is only after answering these "tempting" inquiries and experiencing the consequences numerous...
...times that I have become wary of them. Originally, at the time, they were no big deal. If anything, it seems a little strange now, forcing myself to be silent or evasive when, if it were about any subject other than manifestation, I wouldn't be. Does that make sense to you? Based on the responses here (or lack thereof), I'm getting the feeling that I'm the only one on this site having these "tempting" experiences. The only other place I have heard or read about somebody else experiencing...
...it is in "Message of a Master"...and I only came across that passage after years of reading LOA/New Thought material, and having these experiences.
You're not the only one. I've had them before too - and not just in what is "obvious" manifesting but also in simply telling people something I intend to do, or even hinting at something occasionally I have had things consequently unravel. Especially years ago. But I don't have a (satisfying to me) answer for you as to why the 'tempting' itself occurs.
Perhaps it is a manifestation of an underlying pride or 'need' to feel recognized by others. I certainly know (or it seems) that often part of the consequent unraveling had to do with the fact that AFTER telling someone, there is a part of me that honestly wanted to 'prove' myself and that created resistance. It would come down to what we'd call "clarity of will" in magic - when you want to prove something rather than just do it for it's sake alone then you're not giving a "pure vibration".
So I suspect the initial tempting is related to that in some manner - like I said through some type of desire to be recognized at some level. Consider "Jesus" says things like: "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full." Suggesting their reward was the praise of others etc (and thus they will not get what they 'pray for'). Just 2 c.
@liam very good. and of course they will not get what they want. hypocrites act that way for their own self-rightenous.they want praise from others that is their rewards. it is like taking a phone in front of people and say look i talk on it,to gratify your self. that is not the way,when you use a phone it is to communicate with someone,it is something you do for your self and the one at the other end of the line.
"Perhaps it is a manifestation of an underlying pride or 'need' to feel recognized by others..." @Liam, this is brilliant. I would have never thought of it this way, but it makes total sense. So in a way, I'm surmising, by talking about it you are therefor satisfying the real "desire"--the desire for recognition--and hence the Universe no longer has to do any more work to bring about a physical manifestation. Is that about how you see it? Thanks again for the great insight.
Well, that thought just suddenly occurred to me after I told you I don't have a satisfying answer for you, so it's not something I've thought about a lot. :P But yes, that is the general gist of the idea that was sparked in my mind. :)
Hi @lozenge123, great question. You may find this article interesting: http://www.mind-your-reality.com/tempt_fate.html#Part_2. I always feel that sharing and celebrating eachother's progress and success must be right, but, as you say of your own experiences, I've been proved wrong. The quote you shared feels to me like a personification of a wrestle for mental discipline, presented that way in order to define and thereby limit the power of the agrument against a well-ordered mind. :)