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Once upon a time, when this human body was much younger than it is at present, I was a not so atypical type who believed deeply in the Bible/Jesus but passed through periods of what they called backsliding (you know, pleasures of the flesh, the devil's music, etc). Then came the internet and eventual challenges to my faith to the point of seriously doubting the divine component of the bible. All that's kept me from (if I may dare use a cliche) throwing the baby out with the bathwater, were a few sources suggesting that the bible was never meant to be taken as literal history in the first place; that it is all allegory/symbolism; about the mind, the god/Christ within, and so forth. Whenever I've heard these suggested explanations, I've felt like it could make sense. However, I never took the plunge of investigation for myself. So the other day I said, "well I guess I could read it myself and see what I see." Started with a couple new testament books, especially those that are supposed to be the earliest texts (Galatians, Thessalonians, and Mark which is supposedly the first-written of the gospels) and then turned to the old testament, applying the same approach (Amos, Hosea, Ezekiel, which are supposedly among the earlier-written old testament books), and then decided to go back to the front with Genesis. Have to say, so far I'm not seeing what someone such as Neville Goddard saw. Although the number 12 does seem to make frequent appearance. And there is that passage where Joseph tells of a dream that the sun, moon, and eleven stars were bowing down to him. Other moments have stuck out enough to stop the reading and go, 'hmmmmm' (the visions in Ezekiel for example... almost sounds like an extraterrestrial vehicle?). Or, "okay this is a bit too fantastical for me to believe it is a record of actual historical moments. Maybe embellishment, tall tales, legends... Yet someone wrote them and writings are generally written to be read." Well I have about a thousand thoughts jumbled and jumping, and no need to dump them here, and I also realize this is not the place to discuss accuracy or veracity of supposed historical events (although I do find these aspects very interesting). Am I reading through the texts too quickly? Am I just too dense to understand? Apparently even Neville Goddard did not see these things until after a long time of reading. I will say that it makes sense why someone like me might appreciate the material presented by Abraham-Hicks, yet find it hard to really let go and focus on feeling good, after the passing down through so many generations the belief in a literal interpretation of the bible, which at the end of the day is based off the assumption that man is fallen; man is bad, a sinful creature, deserving of punishment, suffering; taught to walk in fear of an almighty being who is invisible and seems to often be not in a very good mood. Talk about being born, growing up, living under the influence of low vibrations... Thoughts? editing for update: after succumbing to the temptation of consulting external sources (namely seeing pics of ancient sculptures of 'gods'), I am now heavily leaning towards some kind of extraterrestrial influence.
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Hi, I'm new. I don't have an answer. Is that ok? I used to take the bible literally wow. I know a lot of folks who do. The ministers that I heard at churches never broke down the symbolism in a metaphysical way. I'm lost but your question is helping me..get answers I've been seeking on this topic as well. Thanks all. I am lately playing with the possibility that whatever one believes, then it is true for that person. Such a concept does boggle my mind a bit (okay more than a bit), as in how the mechanism for this would work. But really, it always seems to come back to belief/beliefs.
(10 Nov '21, 09:55)
Kieth61
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To me, you are going through this because you do care about these things and have the ability to think for yourself. So you are not going too fast nor are you incapable of grasping truths that others may or may not fully understand. I think you also need to make up your own mind about the nature of man on your own. Maybe other authors can help like Florence Scovel Shinn & Charles Fillmore. I found them helpful in learning about symbolism and metaphysical interpretation of not just Bible stories but other myths and folktales. If you haven't done so already, you will have to learn the pagan origins of Bible stories. Names play an important part of some stories or myths, too. Hope this helps. I have listened to an audio version on youtube of Florence Scovel but not heard of Charles Fillmore. One day not long ago I was taking a walk and pondering these ideas (not just about this specific topic but the general territory of consciousness, reality-creation, etc). I got this thought (higher self?): your only real obstacle is the tendency to consult others, and not find what is true for you and trust in it. Trust that your perspective is as valid as that of anyone. That in itself...
(10 Nov '21, 09:47)
Kieth61
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Maybe Charles Fillmore's books will help, maybe not. My point is, you will get what is needed accordingly that will help you along the way. That has happened to me plenty. Sometimes I didn't understand something at first, then years later I understand more. When something just comes through, like your thought you say, then it is real solid stuff.
(10 Nov '21, 14:56)
ingridstjerne257
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for he who needs to be allegorical Hey I really like the way you put this. And the general principal is likely applicable across the board (Across the Universe?).
(14 Nov '21, 20:25)
Kieth61
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I think the snake in the grass represents temptation :)
Well that's certainly something to consider. Something else that crossed my mind (not for the first time, but this reminds me of it): would the life journey be as exciting without a few Forbidden Zones? Temptations? Somersaults must've been exploding in Eve's belly as she reached out, pulled back, probably many times, before succumbing. And you know, in the version I'm reading the tempter is not called Satan, just a serpent; most subtle of creatures. I find it all a many-headed fascination.
For me the Bible is an assemblage of texts based on human experiences throughout the ages ... the fundamental message being 'have faith in the invisible creative forces that are always in constant evolution throughout the universe'
Hm, that's a nice serving of manna for thought. Parables? All parables? Collection of Parables? Not just the parables that Jesus told but the whole enchilada? Jesus himself a leading parable character?
@Keith61
... and when temptation slithered up the tree, the tree represented The Tree of Life :)
"Satan" ... devils? I'm sure you know Lucifer means lightbringer .
@ele Tree of Life? Am I really seeing what I think I'm seeing? Does it stand out so prominent now? Or is it just an active vibration on my part? I'd lately finished Leviticus and began Numbers, but maybe I will go back to Genesis, take it slower. Yes I'm aware of the Lucifer/Lightbearer thing. But suppose I'd never read the bible, never heard the word Satan, plopped it open and started reading Genesis, encountering a young lady conversing with a serpent... about Life and Knowledge.
I have no expertise in regards to the bible. I can't help you. I can't answer your questions. Even my recollection of The Garden of Eden is foggy. I do recall getting hung up on the apple as a child being I had relatives who lived closer to the equator than me. :)
@ele nevertheless your replies have done much to stimulate my rusty 'what if?' chambers. So I do appreciate your chiming in.
To reiterate what I said in the opening question: I read it as a believer when much younger, then came to look closer at questions that had long nagged me, which resulted in teetering on the edge of outright atheism; but then along came Bill Donahue, Neville Goddard, others... saying the bible was really about this or that.
It happens to spark high interest within me.
I understood your question. Everyone needs a passion. It appears you found yours. I wish you success on your journey or exploration.
I didn't want you to feel ignored or not welcome while you're waiting for responses and why I chimed in :) Glad you found my comments meaningful.
Or a passion I thought was buried but is now resurrecting. Even if I try to use strength and manual force it will still insist on coming forth, spilling so as to spread its spirit to touch all that breathes in this humble world I know.
Neither my Latin nor my memory are perfect. Lucifer means light-bringing as in the morning star. I'm surprised you didn't say that :)
But I think Light-bearer is the correct translation as any student of the bible, mythology or poet would know :))
Hm, I guess the place my interest is most absorbed in at present does not yet feature Lucifer? I think one of the few times the name is even mentioned is in Isaiah and I've a long ways to go before getting to Isaiah. As an aside: actually the story of Joseph in Egypt might be an LOA type of illustration. At the least it reads like it could be a television mini-series for late night viewing.
Sorry, all greek to me :)
Joseph ? As in Joseph and Mary?
If you make any new discoveries, feel free to post them. You can mark them community wiki.
Perhaps you would like to share your "LOA type illustration" :)
The Joseph of Genesis. Nutshell: Jealous brothers schemed and sold Joseph as slave into Egypt. But he ended up becoming something of a big shot, not after a few setbacks. Eventually the brothers and he were reunited and they were ashamed of what they did, begging forgiveness, but Joseph said, "hey it's okay, actually you did me a favor, because life turned out pretty good for me in Egypt." The LOA relevance might be the AH affirmation, "Everything always works out for me." Wiki? Me? Hm.
Saint Joseph ?
The AH affirmation is one of my favorites also especially when I lack trust or faith in self.
Thanks!
Hm I don't know if this Joseph became sainted. This was the son of Jacob/Israel, who eventually ended up in Egypt, plus Jacob/Israel's sons/daughters/family. That's how they are known as Israelites. Their population grew while in Egypt and then they got a new pharaoh who wasn't as tolerant as the previous pharaoh... made life hard for them... then comes Moses, who delivered the children of Israel from Egypt, parting the Red Sea, so on and so forth. Or so saith Genesis & Exodus.
Thanks for the bible lesson :) Yeah, I didn't even watch the movie versions. They just didn't keep my interest. Was this a fav book growing up? Sounds like you may have studied theology.
"Wiki? Me?" ... unless you are into points. If so, form it into a question. If you are just sharing info and it's not a question, you are supposed to mark it wiki. Since @Barry left and @Simon, no one is really enforcing the old rules.
Ah okay. So if I want to just write some rambling speculations, maybe start anew and mark it for a Wiki? No I never studied theology, at least not formally, and I only came to an appreciation of the Joseph story in the re-reading a few days ago. I just find the whole belief/religious/spiritual aspect and influence on humankind extremely interesting, and appreciate being able to openly explore it here. Well then I will look into doing it the wiki way.
... As for the Google comment - prob cause it crossed my mind to do that .
Yes the influence is interesting. Some of it could also be true. Have fun!