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Hello... In reference to [John 3:1-8], an Inward Quest member has declared that "reincarnation" is a Biblical FACT in a related thread. [John 3:1-8] reads as follows: 1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Does anybody else see the notion of "reincarnation" in this Biblical passage? Does anybody else see the mention of death-rebirth cycles of self-improvement in this Biblical passage?
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Dear Concerned Citizen! Thanks for your Concern, I don't feel like ever having bibilical debates, I have used my spiritual weapons against too many of my Brothers in ignorance.The outcome was not love. Here is a link about Reincarnation and the Bible. Reincarnation was a common belief system in Jesus' day. John the Baptist-Elijah. Enjoy the reading http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen03.html 'Oh the Born-again that you refer to could mean a change from the rational mind to the Spiritual (believing) mind, just a thought. G16 Same here. 'I don't feel like ever having bibilical debates.' Neither do I. The Bible could mean anything you like if you twist its words enough, being mainly metaphorical and allegorical.
(21 Jul '10, 14:21)
BridgetJones09
G16: Your link's author contradicts himself: (1) "Reincarnation is defined as the permanent death of the body and the SOUL incarnating into a different body" & (2) "Reincarnation is the rebirth of a person's SPIRIT into a new body to be born again as an infant". How is the SOUL & the SPIRIT the same thing? John Baptist was NOT reincarnated Elijah because ELIJAH NEVER DIED [II Kings 2]. Thus, Elijah never had a "permanent death of the body" in order for his spirit (or soul?) to be placed in the fetus of John Baptist. The author is confused with his own doctrines and lacks Bible knowledge.
(23 Jul '10, 18:19)
Concerned Citizen
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born again, thoughts about may also be viewed as an unfolding of progress, an evolution onto the next step; it most likely would not depend on reincarnation; or exclude it; to learn to leave the old and worn out, to move on; starting over anew carrying along the wisdoms of lessons past learned. Good one Fred I agree with you here.
(09 Sep '11, 08:17)
Paulina 1
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I must agree with Concerned Citizen on this ( did i really write that !) re incarnation just isnt anything to do with biblical teaching.HOWEVER i persoanally dont believe that being born again is anything to do with human will.Jesus when asked how could anyone get born again didnt give any answer that the person asking could understand.He said in effect that you had no more control over being born again than you had on the wind blowing! The born again thing was only mentioned once in the whole bible.It has been linked to being saved by the same mis interpretation that Concerned Citizen thinks will send people to hell. If mis interpritation of ANY scripture sends one to hell than im sure heaven will be a rather desolate place. I have a far more compassionate God and Saviour than that,and i feel im not the only one. Graham COOK: Jesus Christ told Nicodemus how to be BORN-AGAIN in [John 3:14-16]. It all comes down to personally BELIEVING Jesus Christ's claims about Himself. Notice "whosoever believeth" [verse 15] and "whosoever believeth" [verse 16]. GOD has made THE WAY for man's salvation. Now, a man must personally choose to BELIEVE it. Also, BORN AGAIN,BORN of GOD, and BORN of the SPIRIT are all identical and all point to GOD's SALVATION. Jesus Christ said this: "And fear not them which kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in HELL."
(07 Sep '10, 00:28)
Concerned Citizen
Sorry but the concepts of choosing to beiieve something is not in my make up.I either do or i dont.The reason i dont quote " appropriate verses " of scripture is that the Bible isnt my only point of reference to God.I can see its yours.im wondering if any other of the authors mentioned on this site ie Troward,Murphy Trine and the like crop up in your reading matter?Are you interested in metaphysics,law of attraction etc. Or do you think their doctrine is " SATANIC HERESY " as well. Hey its really non of my business but do your evengelical friends know your on a site like this? no offense.
(07 Sep '10, 08:58)
Monty Riviera
Also it may stagger you to know this but YOUR interpritation of scripture isnt the only one you know.Does everyone who disagrees with your line get classed a heretic?When i hear the phrase Heretic im reminded of the horrors in history that that phrase and more importantly the ideas and attitude behind it wreaked.I think i will draw a line under this and wont be corresponding with you again.
(07 Sep '10, 09:01)
Monty Riviera
COOK: No problem. Communication breakdown was inevitable because we are at opposite ends of the spectrum. I have studied many other religions and philosophies. Unlike others, I do not INVENT claims when speaking about the tenets of other belief systems. The Bible interprets ITSELF. If I (or any man) make a claim outside of its own interpretation, then it is a HERESY. Why shouldn't I be "on a site like this"? Is special membership required? Are some questions not tagged "god", "jesus", or "bible"? If the moderators don't want me here, they can just let me know and I will quietly depart.
(07 Sep '10, 18:25)
Concerned Citizen
COOK: The horrors in history with the term "Heresy" or "Heretic" have NOTHING to do with Biblical Christianity. Jesus Christ NEVER commands BORN-AGAIN Believers to wage war in His name. The horrors in history were a product of ROMAN CATHOLICISM. The Bible Believers were the ones which were being burnt at the stake or thrown to the lions. Jesus Christ was NOT a Roman Catholic. Biblical Christianity stands APART from all the horrors. Take care, COOK...
(07 Sep '10, 18:34)
Concerned Citizen
the truth is that religion is corrupted not every one in religion are doing the right thing or are free of sin! jesus never said do religion he said make disciple! love your brother and sister! take care of the lamb!do not judge! do not sin! is that what religion is doing today?
(24 Jun '11, 03:20)
white tiger
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To be born again as in the original question simply means to be born in spirit. The water mentioned signifies the cleansing of the old for now that you are born again you shall be a compleately new person. That simply means you shall change from your old ways and enter life conscious of the spirit of God within you and live acording to that consciousness. Baptisim is the right word. To be baptized in spirit has nothing to do with reincarnation. Great answer : )
(09 Sep '11, 17:44)
AboveBelow
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if i decide to take another body and experiance a second life taking care of the lamb what is it to you? i will also had that you can be born again in this life time when you get enlighten meaning leaving this life and coming back to it. does this answer the question? |
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Let's quit arguing, and directly answer this question... "Born Again" means being renewed into a new Life as a follower of Jesus Christ. It also means that once born again, the Holy Spirit has come into you, and you are now a whole new Creation in Christ. Reincarnation, on the other hand, refers to the idea that a soul lives in a body, and when the body dies, after some unknown period of time, that soul is Reinserted into a new body, and walks the Earth again. When I asked if Jesus may have reincarnated, I did not understand His nature completely...I did not understand that Jesus, being literally half-God, could not be born again. The link to the original question is above, buried in the heated dialogue...if you can find it, that is... Blessings, Jaianniah P.S.I now wish I had never asked that stupid question in the first place!!! JAI: [1] Jesus Christ was NOT 'half-God'. He was fully HUMAN (The Son of Man) and fully DIVINE (The Son of GOD) [2] In your answer, when you say that Jesus Christ 'could not be born again', did you really mean to say that He 'could not be reincarnated' because of His nature?? Was this a 'typo'?? [3] Why do you describe your question as 'stupid'?? If this Biblical information has motivated you to discover the TRUE identity of the Biblical Jesus, then you are demonstrating WISDOM! The true 'inward quest' for GOD is fulfilled when the final destination (Jesus Christ) is reached.
(28 Jun '11, 22:00)
Concerned Citizen
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Being born from above (born again) has nothing to do with reincarnation. It is the awakening of God in man, the second birth. This is symbolically shown in the Bible as the second son, Abel, Isaac, Jacob etc. It is the birth of the inner man (who you really are). |
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Hello… An Inward Quest member has posted a direct answer to me in another thread concerning the Bible, Jesus Christ, and the topic of “reincarnation”. His answer contains many incorrect claims in relation to the Bible which I have addressed below. FALSE CLAIM #1: “The quotes you refer to are from other books in the bible who do not carry HIS words, but rather the words of his followers, who were still trying to come to grips with what they had witnessed and/or believed in.” The Bible is not comprised ONLY of the Words of Jesus Christ when He was in the form of man. If this were so, then GOD would have had only the 4 Gospels as the complete Bible. However, Bible history, doctrine, and prophecy have a much farther reach. Jesus Christ was with GOD and was GOD from the beginning: [John 1:1,2]. THEN, He was made FLESH [John 1:14]. Therefore, all 66 books of the Bible represent His Words. Jesus Christ confirms this in [Luke 24: 27,44,45]. The promise of Jesus Christ to the disciples was that they would NOT be abandoned after His ascension. They would be given the Holy Ghost [John 7:39; 14:26; 15:26,27; 16:13,14]. The Holy Ghost would lead them, guide them into all TRUTH, and bring into their remembrance all the Words of Jesus Christ. After the stoning of Stephen [Acts 7], the only thing that needed to be settled was how the Gentiles fit into the plan of individual salvation. This was done at the meeting in Jerusalem between Paul and the other apostles in [Acts 15] where the invisible Body of Christ was understood to be comprised of BORN-AGAIN Jews and Gentiles. Therefore, at the time of writing their books, the New Testament writers knew exactly what they believed, what they were writing, and to whom they were writing [II Peter 1:20,21] [II Timothy 3:16]. At the time of writing their books, the New Testament writers were already filled and inspired by the Holy Ghost. FALSE CLAIM #2: The PRIVATE INTERPRETATION of [John 3:1-8]. The claim that “reincarnation” is a Biblical fact(?!) is FALSE. Nowhere in the Old or New Testament is “reincarnation” ever mentioned. In [John 3:1-8], choosing to believe that the Biblical term “born again” means “reincarnation” is an incorrect private interpretation. The Bible defines its own terms. Becoming “born again” is a personal choice. Becoming “born again” is the one-time rebirth of your dead spirit which gives you the guarantee of a glorified body at your resurrection and re-establishes your perfect image which was lost by Adam at the Fall. You are “born again” only by the word of GOD [I Peter 1:23-25]. The Bible says that, since GOD’s word lives and abides forever and is incorruptible, your “born again” spirit also lives and abides forever and is incorruptible from the moment of your CONVERSION [Romans 6:8-11; 8:10]. Therefore, since a “born again” spirit can NEVER die, how will it be able to “reincarnate” through death-rebirth cycles? Since a “born again” spirit has been made ALIVE by GOD, why would it need death-rebirth cycles? Now, once you choose to be “born again” in SPIRIT, observe what the Bible says about your glorified BODY: [I Corinthians 15:51-55]. By GOD’s power, this one-time resurrection also gives you a body that is immortal and incorruptible. Thus, SPIRITUALLY and BODILY, you will NEVER die again once you resurrect in GOD through Jesus Christ. The continuous death-rebirth cycle of “reincarnation” is non-existent when you are “born again” because you are IN Jesus Christ and are ETERNAL with GOD [I John 5:19,20]. FALSE CLAIM #3: “The only difference between Christ and us is that he CHOOSES to incarnate among us in order to advance our moral development, whereas we HAVE to reincarnate on earth and other worlds until we have perfected ourselves morally and intelectually to the point where we are pure spirits like him, and become exempt from the cycle, like he is. We would then be true sons and daughters of God, like he is.” Firstly, if Christ “CHOOSES to incarnate among us”, then where is he today? When did he incarnate the last time? What is he doing or what has he done lately to “advance our moral development”? The Biblical Jesus Christ did not remain hidden or silent [Matthew 26:55]. Where are these incarnations of Jesus Christ? One of the signs of the last days is that many false “Christs” will be declared to exist! Bible Believers are warned not to believe or follow these claims [Matthew 24:23,24]. Secondly, where in the Bible do we find the claim that “we HAVE to reincarnate on earth and other worlds(?!) until we have perfected ourselves”? How can you “perfect yourself” when the GOD of the Bible says that all your righteousnesses are as filthy rags [Isaiah 64:6]? The GOD of the Bible says that ONLY He can perfect you, and that you must ask Him to do so of your own FREE WILL through the blood of Jesus Christ. Thirdly, as demonstrated before, there is no “cycle to be exempted from” in the Bible. The Bible is clear: Once you die in this lifetime, only the SIN judgment remains [Hebrews 9:27,28]. Fourthly, becoming a son of GOD is based on accepting the claims of Jesus Christ about Himself. It is NOT based on death-rebirth cycles of self-improvement. A son of GOD is born of GOD and can never die [John 1:12,13] [I John 5:11,12]. FALSE CLAIM #4: “If you want to know more about the true explanation of reality, read the Spirits Book by Allan Kardec, and anything by Francisco Candido Xavier. Then you will begin your true education.” Is a dead systematizer of spiritism (Kardec) and a dead medium (Xavier) really the best foundation for the beginning of my “true education”? How can two dead men have the “true explanation of reality”? Do the words of these two dead men have more spiritual AUTHORITY than the Words of the LIVING GOD? In his answer, the Inward Quest member referred to Jesus Christ as “The Master”. Would Jesus Christ (“The Master”) approve of the practices of Kardec and Xavier? Let us determine the answer from the Bible: The Law of Moses to Israel said the following concerning spiritism and mediums: “When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee. Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God. For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do.” [Deuteronomy 18:9-14] In relation to The Law of Moses, Jesus Christ said the following about Himself: “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” [Matthew 5:17,18] Conclusion: Since Jesus Christ FULFILLS the Law of Moses, then Jesus Christ is in AGREEMENT with the Law of Moses and is totally OPPOSED to the practices of spiritism and mediums. If a man’s understanding of reality is based on the practices of spiritism and mediums, then I respect his PERSONAL choice. He should be secure, at peace with his beliefs, and confident in his proof texts. He should be able to share his spiritual information with others in the context of his spiritual foundation and should not be upset or angry that others have different spiritual foundations and beliefs. With the existence of so many “sacred” writings and philosophies, it should be expected that spiritual foundations are NOT the same. What a man should NOT be doing is running to OTHER proof texts in order to find confirmation or validity for his own personal beliefs. Proof texts should be allowed to maintain their uniqueness of uniformity and context. Therefore, attempting to force personal beliefs into GOD’s pre-determined parameters for the Bible is an incorrect and dangerous practice. GOD says that incorrectly manipulating His Words will lead to a man’s destruction [II Peter 3:16,17]. If the Bible is being linked to anything outside of its scope or intent, GOD’s Words will always dismantle, expose, and correct any man or philosophy. Thus, the Biblical term “born again” in [John 3:1-8] should ONLY be defined by the Bible and not by a man’s personal opinion. The Bible clearly demonstrates that the term “born again” does NOT mean “reincarnation”. Thanks for reading. Concerned Citizen Given that you answered the question right after you asked it, were you really asking a question?
(21 Jul '10, 03:50)
Vesuvius
I was wondering the same. Asking a question to answer yourself??? What's the point?
(21 Jul '10, 14:16)
BridgetJones09
I wanted to ask a separate question so I could post my answer directly in relation to a member's claims to me. If this procedure is incorrect, I will post any subsequent replies in the form of answers in the original thread. In this case, I felt that starting a scriptural analysis would compromise the intent of the original thread. Even though I answered, my question is still open to anybody: Where do you find "reincarnation" in these 8 verses of scripture? From these 8 verses, what does "born again" mean? Or maybe you will need more than just these 8 verses to properly answer the question?
(21 Jul '10, 17:57)
Concerned Citizen
OK. I read the original thread, and have added the appropriate links to your question and answer, so that others can more easily find the original thread. As to the correct procedure for posting a question, I don't have a problem with your question (or your answer), but generally I wait a day or two for others to weigh in before posting an answer to my own question, since the purpose of a question, generally speaking, is to elicit answers from others.
(21 Jul '10, 21:24)
Vesuvius
The software that runs this site is designed to discourage extended debate. Experience has shown that if extended debate is allowed in online forums, eventually those forums degenerate into name-calling and ad-homineum attacks. This is clearly illustrated by the first line of Sylvanius' direct response to you, which Sylvanius should have posted as a comment under your original answer, not as a new answer to the original question.
(21 Jul '10, 21:34)
Vesuvius
The rules are interpreted more loosely on this site than on others in the StackExchange network. We favor the free exchange of ideas, and appreciate the diversity of viewpoints that members express here. It works because (for the most part) members have participated politely, and have exercised personal restraint.
(21 Jul '10, 21:38)
Vesuvius
Ultimately, the community for a given StackExchange site decides what happens next, using their close votes and moderator flags. On StackOverflow, this kind of exchange would not have been tolerated. Sylvanus' original answer, and this question, would have been quickly deleted by other community participants.
(21 Jul '10, 21:40)
Vesuvius
Where did Jeus confirm that all 66 books in the bible were direct from God.He mentioned the law and the prophets ONLY .He certainly didnt mention any of the new testemaent whilst on his mission as it wasnt even written.Are there any properly qualified historians out there WITHOUT a religious axe to gring who can expalin how those 66 books got put together??
(06 Sep '10, 13:53)
Monty Riviera
COOK: In the Old Testament, GOD's Words were written down and preserved by a Levitical priesthood [Deuteronomy 17:18; 31:25,26][Malachi 2:7]. In the New Testament, GOD's Words were written and preserved by the members of the invisible Body of Christ (ie. BORN-AGAIN Believers) who replaced this function of the Levitical priesthood [John 16:13][I Peter 2:5,9]. Please note that I have no religious axe to grind. I am just sharing FREE Biblical information.
(06 Sep '10, 23:54)
Concerned Citizen
the answer is ask god because the bible as been corrupt by men that seek power! and in this answer that you have give about foundation of spirituallity or religion it is made more to divide then unite!as for medium if they have the talent and is god gift to them why should they not use it wisely? did jesus said to not judge or you will be judge with the same mesure?
(24 Jun '11, 03:12)
white tiger
I have to disagree.
(24 Jun '11, 14:26)
Asklepios
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Post a link to the related thread, or it didn't happen.
The related thread is: "Is it possible that Jesus has reincarnated? Could He be a sacred person today?". I apologize, but I am not familiar with the "link" function on this site. I also did not want to mention the member by name because I am not evaluating the person. I am evaluating his claims.
what is possible and what happened have some similarities. an avatar is the special spirit connected through a human body for a time, so no reincarnations as we go through but, no doubt, has its own destiny and is ever evolving.
FRED: Unlike JESUS CHRIST (GOD in the FLESH) who came to earth ONCE to shed His Blood for the SIN atonement and then RESURRECTED(!), the Hindu AVATAR must return AGAIN and AGAIN to show men the way to GOD. The Hindu 'god' Vishnu is said to take human birth in the form of Narayana (the seed of all AVATARS). The Srimad Bhagavata states: "As countless rivers are born from an ocean that never goes dry, so countless are the DESCENTS of the lord." THIS IS CONTRARY TO GOD'S WORDS IN THE BIBLE! I repeat: 'Reincarnation' belongs to the Eastern religions, philosophies, and mythologies.