What do you mean grow? There is only one, emotionless, logical explanation to everything. Any other explanation would have to be colored by a certain emotion. "The growth" therefore cannot happen past emotionless, it can only happen within the world of emotions, where growing substitute expansion of one's ability to handle the emotions.

I think the main reason ppl get defensive is out of insecurity. Another reason ppl get defensive is because their is a grain or two of truth in the attack. For example - if someone said you were fat & you were skinny as a rail, you would laugh. You wouldn't feel a need to defend yourself. It could be a combo of both.

"Defensive people believe that their reactions protect them from outside attack. In fact, defensive people are unconsciously trying to shield themselves from their own doubts about their significance, competence or likeability" ~ James Tamm So yes, I believe their is a growth opportunity here. Everything is a reflection - oh, that lovely magical looking glass reflects back..

@ele because people don't consider the situations, but their own impression of themselves in that situation instead.

@Cal True I'm a bit different. If I feel defensive I'm pretty sure I'm guilty of something. I have no issues accepting fault or responsibility or apologizing if warranted. Once I recognize this & let go of the ego, it's easy. So many ppl cannot give up the need to be right.

@ele, cannot give up because in the world built on reputation it seems self-destructive and almost illogical to admit any mistake. It is seen as weakness.

If someone wants to be a winner, he will resist admitting he lost. Because if he did, he might be seen as loser. Short sight and quick judgement of others is what people fear in this scenario. Winner that admits to have lost, is judged as loser. The very same loser, that always loses.

Everyone wants to be a winner at some area..and that...

...is the area we care for. Where we involve emotions. Which we try to protect. It is what is propelling our lives forward.

If we didn't care, we wouldn't have emotions towards it, we wouldn't get defensive at all, but we would also not go anywhere in life.

It's said that if you don't know what you fight for, you'll fall for anything. One gotta raise for his cause and go down for it - to have a story to tell our life.

So it's alright to get defensive, to fight for whatever it is you enjoy..

..fighting for. If in each step you celebrate the destination you're journey leads to, then it's a step worth taking. Then it is when, your journey becomes the destination. Being in the now.

If you try to resolve every situation where you get defensive, you will move in circles. Eventually depriving yourself of any meaning of life. And although I myself appreciate my ability to perceive connections of causes and consequences without emotions. I rarely practice it. For I'm writing my own story.

@cal If someone I care about criticises me, it hurts. If the criticism came from someone else it would bounce right off or I would take it as constructive. It's been rather obvious that you cannot admit to a mistake & apologies don't come easily to you. I don't find any joy in arguing & if the subject matter is not important I will give in. Surrender frees you. You don't have to give any more energy to something which doesn't make you feel good. I disagree, it's not a weakness. Consider it (A)

(B) it a strength. Why would you want to give your power away over something inconsequential? Certainly it's normal for ppl to be want to be winners in some area. If you lost at a game of tennis or cards, would you feel like a loser? I know a few guys who absolutely under no circumstances can admit to be wrong. Since I know them well,I know it involves deeply rooted self esteem issues going back to childhood. It's also a protection issue & you're right they do not want to be viewed as

(C) losers. They (you) are the only ones who see themselves through this distorted glass. Ok -- as for your last comment - now that circular logic & Circle of Life. Yes, it is ok to feel defensive. I would rather resolve the emotional conflict so history doesn't continue to repeat itself. "For I'm writing my own story." - yes, in the comment sections - because this is the way you want your story told. Not an exact quote - but when I read it, I thought what a poet. Poetry is in your blood.

@ele, ye I don't discuss many topics. Because as I said, at the very first comment... There is only one, emotionless, logical way of handling whatever issue. That is the way which resolves the solution in the most effective way.

And in any argument, when given a problem, you can sense whether the person is arguing for the sake of resolving the issue, of for his own sake and the way that he "would" want the issue resolved. I can figure out the former myself, thus no need to discuss...and I...

...I shamelessly disregard the latter. If I see emotional involvement of the other person in the argument, I dismiss it as irrelevant. As it leads not to solution of problem at hand, but it leads you in circles to another emotionally colored state/solution, which isn't really a solution to the situation.

Consider this hypothetical situation:

You are flying a space shuttle together with a person who you love very much. This shuttle has been attacked and is hard to control it...

... it is on direct collision course with a space station inhabited by hundreds of people. Unfortunate circumstance has it that the life support on your shuttle has malfunctioned and it will not be able to sustain two people before you get anywhere near the station. You are the one that can pilot it, your beloved cannot...

and so here's the dilemma.. Would you kill the one you love to have enough time to divert the course and prevent the shuttle crashing into the station? Or would your...

...emotions kick in?

a) If you both stay alive, you will suffocate to death and the shuttle will eventually crash into the station killing hundreds of others. b) if you spare your loved one's life, and kill yourself (because that's what people do, die for their loved ones)..s/he will live..for a while..until the shuttle crashes into the station as s/he not a trained pilot. c) or take the only logical emotionless route.. jetison him/her into space, divert the course and save hundreds of lives?

@Cal "There is only one, emotionless, logical way of handling whatever issue" and that being ... not to care? Numbing yourself? As for your saga, C) I understand its the logical choice. - but why is this the emotionless response?

I hate to go; but I must bid you goodnight. I'm headed to be bed & I think we are spamming poor cass's inbox (sorry). Please do respond to my ?'s & anything else you would like to say. I'll talk to you later; but we are getting off topic. Perhaps another thread.

I guess, if you imagine the situation I described, maybe you can feel the temptation to give into your emotions. It hits directly into the core of our being...the questions so what do I live for anyway? is brought up at the very moment when the decision have to be made.

To be honest, I'm not sure which option I would choose.

@ele, C) you are solving the issue of shuttle crashing into station + saving hundred of lives you don't really care about, and having the one you do care about not surviving. When you don't care, as you pointed out, you have no emotions involved in the case. That is why it's emotionless.

And you are right, we're off the course. Collision course suspension. Haha.

anyway sorry Cass, but I guess it's apparent now I have no emotional involvement in your thread therefore deviating from original...

Hey -- me neither -- prob A or we both jump. No, I'd prob sacrifice myself & jump. I wouldn't want someone who loved me to live with the fact he killed me. Nite

...question of yours.

@ele, goodnight, sleep well and dreams of sweet, til night is morning, til we meet.