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I was considering to myself my frequent inability to properly see a situation from multiple points of view. Examples being the other person, yourself, the other person while having understanding of everything motivating you to act the way you do, your own perspective with the above understanding about the subject, an outsider with only outward perceptions, an outsider with full understanding of both party's motivations, etc. It created in me this question, which is a way for me to easily trick myself into being forced to consider what I may have difficulties with otherwise. If someone said all of the questions you answered on IQ, and all of the personas asking them and your opinion of the questions they were asking, and your opinion of the individual; were all intentional and designed to instigate a particular answer or reaction in you, the reader? If this doesn't make sense, it'd be like if @Stingray portrayed himself as some variety of needy or lost soul, leading you to draw judgements about this persona with the intention of leading you to a conclusion you would not have reached had it simply been told to you outright or the situation had been discussed with you knowing you were the true subject matter? To me this inspires a huge amount of consideration about myself and the details about myself I have the most trouble observing objectively or acknowledging after observation, or about the lessons I have most trouble learning.
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I can say as expressed in the movie "The Circle of Iron (The Silent Flute)" that there are teachers that point the way and those that point the wrong direction. Those that point the wrong direction force you to evaluate your own thoughts. They make you learn not by listening and just doing as told but fighting what you believe is wrong to find what is right. It makes you find the answer and believe you had it without any help. The teachers are many and most are not even aware they are teaching you. So regardless of up down or sideways, forward or backward you progress.
Love the answer. And yes, this is a similar kind of behavior to what I'm trying to depict. Though this is more: "martial arts master who presents himself as aloof while gently guiding 'truly'". However I think it's important to warn: I feel it takes a great deal of intuition and wisdom to utilize the "wrong direction" approach in an efficient and effective manner, one which not all who utilize this method actually possess irrelevant of their own opinion about whether or not they do possess it.
(21 Oct '13, 04:59)
Snow
Well.. this is some extreme 180 I pulled. Found myself laying in bed contemplating this subject and the resulting development has actually lead me to be so invested I'm actually angry at you. This topic actually stirs something so deep in me it makes me so furious I want to lash out at anyone who isn't repulsed by the idea. The very least I can say is if I had this realization in a way that was directly related to me the results would have been catastrophic, so maybe in some twisted way you~
(21 Oct '13, 10:22)
Snow
led me to a conclusion about my loathing of this entire approach and any thought process capable of leading to it, and did so in a way which minimized my reaction. As I was reaching these conclusions I had the presence of mind to assure myself I wouldn't actually write any replies until I calmed down and collected myself even slightly. I now have the further presence to instead not say any of the many, even vicious, things about this approach or anyone who can consciously find themselves ~
(21 Oct '13, 10:23)
Snow
thinking anything positive about it. What I will say is this: Until this point in the interest of maintaining my objectivity I've accepted the idea of pointing in the wrong direction having value to some and in the right circumstance. Due to my personal aversion to the concept I didn't invest any further real consideration. After reading your answer I felt you somewhat endorsed the concept (which I really hope you don't), as others I'd respected in the past had. ~
(21 Oct '13, 10:23)
Snow
This made me begin to delve further into putting true thought into the matter, shortly after I was immediately repulsed by the glaringly obvious reasons why it was absurd, so much so I was enraged at anyone who dared have the negative traits I considered necessary to actually put any credence in the concept being valuable. Even now after calming down dramatically, I am still rendered speechless attempting to find a way to even approach expressing the gravity with which I'm offended by~
(21 Oct '13, 10:23)
Snow
how insulting I find the idea to simple intelligence, much less any notion of wisdom diluted enough to consider themselves justified in possessing these repulsive concepts. I hope and believe after reading this anyone else will be able to quickly figure out what I did, simply by actually considering with either intellect or empathy even to the slightest degree. Damn that was quite a rant.. ~
(21 Oct '13, 10:24)
Snow
Despite how I feel about the subject I'm glad this question & answer led me to this point. I just hope I was wrong in concluding your answer hinted at your own acceptance of the idea. Either way.. inspired one hell of a reaction in me, which by itself is intriguing even before considering the contents of the reaction itself. Thanks for sharing! Hah. :)
(21 Oct '13, 10:25)
Snow
Not just David Carriden but all of those Crom met were teachers. Those that said give up and join me here to those that said enjoy the moment who cares what the consequences are! Then those that fought him to try to keep him from progressing really were all part of his awakening. Even you getting mad is part of that awakening. Look at the situation and think what can I learn from this, what can I gain?
(21 Oct '13, 10:35)
Wade Casaldi
Oh absolutely. The situation, my reaction, the conditions behind both, and many levels of personal entanglement much deeper than the things which brought attention to them. All of these have presented me with a great deal of things to process. I wasn't being disingenuous in the slightest when I said thanks for sharing. My mind is still reeling from the impact in ways which are outlandish to me, and I'm fathoms back down from where I started when this hit me. Quite intriguing to me indeed....
(21 Oct '13, 10:53)
Snow
The ones that point out the wrong direction that teach you may be lost themselves. There were two men, one was a vagrant he was always in jail, he was into drugs and alcohol heavy, he was always violent. The other brother was ritzy, he had everything, he was a big will known success. Both when questioned how they got where they were said it was because of their father. One said he had no choice the other said he did everything to keep from ending up like his father.
(21 Oct '13, 10:55)
Wade Casaldi
Both had the same teacher, their father but one awoke and made a great life because of his hardships. The other will someday awaken.
(21 Oct '13, 10:57)
Wade Casaldi
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who is it that's seeking personal similiarity to find the archetype and get to each question there is answer and to each answer there is a question. when one is born again of water and spirit he understand that the living one that he is, know the question and the answer with out division.
(22 Oct '13, 14:55)
white tiger
white tiger, he has come to know that each be their own Parsifal if their eyes can see upwards
(23 Oct '13, 15:20)
fred
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A central issue points to the deep cleverness of All That Is to try to subvert It's own self centric tendencies ... God in duality experiencing Itself in contrast to itself ... positive and negative emotions exist for the sake of contrast and 'don't shoot the messenger' - it's all good! |
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you say: I was considering to myself my frequent inability to properly see a situation from multiple points of view. Examples being the other person, yourself, the other person while having understanding of everything motivating you to act the way you do, your own perspective with the above understanding about the subject, an outsider with only outward perceptions, an outsider with full understanding of both party's motivations, etc. It created in me this question, which is a way for me to easily trick myself into being forced to consider what I may have difficulties with otherwise. the fact is that if you would have full understanding of every point of view, in a perfect world every one else would have the same understanding you would not have any difficulty. but since this world is not perfect because some do not see or hear and cannot properly split that pieces of wood and lift that stone that they are trap under and they seek to trap other with that stone. even if you would be perfect no one would notice. because you would know better then to quarrel with blind people that did not wash the inside of the cup. advice: if you are perfect stay quiet and do not tell any one they will not accept it and will want to stone you and they will make a big deal of the speck of saw dust in your eye and they will not remove the beam that they have in their own eye. who is with out sin to cast the first stone? by what measure will you judge also will you be judge. even if you are perfect have discernment and wisdom make righteous decision but do not judge. have mercy and love the neighbor as yourself. after all it is not what you put in your mouth that will defile you, it is what comes out of it that will defile you. will also add if one things that he is perfect and get mad do not see do not listen and judge people with is measure with out mercy is he perfect? or is the one telling the truth that is quiet that have mercy and a good heart the one that is perfect? there is a difference between every one as above as below, yet there is a difference also as below as above, yet above no one seek to be better or higher then is neighbor. again I tell you love the neighbor as your self. Let there be light, be the light that you can be, experience and enjoy. |
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[(For reference, this question is actually very direct and specific, as any simple one-liner question would be. It just requires a much longer lead-in to clearly articulate what is being asked. Though I don't mind it being marked community wiki, wouldn't care about the karma either way. Just noting my differing opinion on the subject matter for the sake of noting it. :P It's not a "discussion" question or a free-form contribution question, like I think of comm-wikis to be. Just complex. ^_^y )]
seems like you are over complicating things.. i dont know why you would have such a question... it does not serve too much value thinking what if everything is backwards in the world etc.. yes you can answer something like that but what's the value in it.. unless you have some movie idea or creative story for entertainment then yea.. lol ...
Fair and important point, Abraham. Some may have difficulty seeing the value. Personally I see it useful to others outside of similar experiences, but my situation should make grasping it easier. The style of consideration, 'rejecting realism' for lack of a better phrase, is of the utmost importance to someone who already has involuntary episodes either featuring or fueled by considerations of this nature.
Understanding the process voluntarily is invaluable, if you already face it involuntarily
I could also drone on endlessly about the possible applications for many varieties of individuals faced with many varieties of situations coming from many walks of life. However this would go on forever, and is more an exercise in "Let's see how many wood sheds we can build, each time using a different set of tools, then a different set of materials, and see how they come out on the other side."
I think you can come to plenty on your own, though I'll gladly share a few if you are unable. :) ^_^
@Snow, the way you've phrased this question (and the body of it) is as a discussion question ( "What would you think about your..." ) therefore it has been made Community Wiki because there can never be a "right" answer when you ask directly for a survey of personal opinions. If you had refocused your question (and the body of it) in a more impartial, objective manner asking, for example, about the principles underlying perceptions then it would not be Community Wiki
Thanks for the clarification, I understand your judgement call and motivation behind it a bit clearer now.
Though I think the consideration of there being a "right" answer should be rejected at its premise, having no place here or any other question, as the idea itself is counter-intuitive to the kind of discussion this site primarily inspires and facilitates.
I think believing there's a right answer to be found when you're nowhere in sight of the finish line only guarantees halting progress.
I still completely see and understand your stance, and appreciate your voluntarily taking the time to clarify it to me when you didn't need to. I greatly respect you doing this. Thanks much.
@Snow, Community Wiki is aimed at those who might wish to attack the site by quickly building up enough points to cause damage. They could otherwise do this easily by asking discussion-style questions that needed little knowledge of the subjects on the site. We have found that those with a genuine long-term interest in the site subjects rarely wish to cause trouble. But to be consistent and fair, and not single out any individuals, we just apply the same Community Wiki standards to all
Snow I think this is an excellent question, not an attack on IQ but a very profound point. Would it make a difference? Hum I can get to Europe if I travel around the globe leaving from NewJersy shore. But I can also get to Europe if I leave the USA from the California shore. What is forward, what is backward?
I appreciate the sentiment and acknowledging it's not an attack on IQ.. however I'm extremely confused at how it could be seen as an attack on IQ in the first place?
In case it wasn't clear already, this is very entirely not its purpose. Not even remotely in scope.
Instead I'm proposing there are multiple ways IQ can speak to someone's growth if they're willing to consider a deeper picture, where the subject inspiring their answer may be intended to produce this answer in the first place.
It's the difference between looking at a question or one asking it and thinking to yourself "What does this person need out of the answers they're given" versus "What could I gain if this was actually a message to me?"
I.E: Instead of a question appearing to depict the condition of the asker and invoking your opinions about how they got themselves in their situation, it could instead be intended to bring to light your own judgement of the person and their predicament.
Very much agreed. Again I think it is a great question that lets us examine our own beliefs.
@Snow observe life. Did you ever notice two l people doing something exactly opposite but each achieving the same result? Jai and I notice that all the time. I do a lot of things exactly opposite of how she does them but both produce the same result. When you realize this you see that we are all using what works for us and we all believe that there is no other way until we see someone getting it right doing it all wrong.
I like what you're saying, and I agree with the general premise of this being common, but I don't think it's how it has to be, or how it is meant to be.
I think this is one of many examples of methods of thought which can be taught and built, and would be in a society which isn't dysfunctional.
Being able to see there's many ways to accomplish the same goal is different than putting weight on methods which are considerably less effective.
It's like being able to use perpetual motion or highly toxic radioactive process to create limitless energy. Even if the end product you build is the same it doesn't mean the repercussions in the interim and afterwards will be. Different tools and materials result in three houses being built, but not all of them can be blown down by the same big bad wolf.
I want us to be teaching little piggies everywhere to start at bricks and improve from there, and giving big bad wolves other hobbies...
Yes there is an easy way and a hard way, a short way and a long way. All ways are lending to progress but I agree it is better if willing to listen to quality advice. We learn from the confidence man when we get ripped off. We also learn from the wise man that really knows the answer. One is progression the hard way, the other is progression the easy way.