I think we are all here for a purpose whether good or bad or both, we are here to teach each other about Love and compassion. We create our own reality through our thoughts and feelings. Nothing is real everything is imagined and the only reality is that in which we as one with the Universe bring about in this world. Right now it seems that most people have given up on Love and have fallen into fear. It is like we are asleep and don't know how powerful we really are. All we need to do is change our thoughts and feelings about each other into love instead of fear and the whole world will change. Misery is here to teach us unconditional Love, for those of us who know this, it is our mission to teach others and help them wake up to their true magnificence. We start by leading by example treat others as you would like to be treated. There is nothing to fear but fear itself it is a mindset a choice. Chose to Love!

Nope, the systems not flawed. Its working perfectly, n fact it works because of the ultimate law. A law beyond LOA, beyond inverse transformation, in fact the ultimate law. The law of consciousness. This world is faithfully mirroring the consciousness of us all, in fact the mirror itself is nothing more or less than consciousness.

The law of consciousness and consciousness is all there is. It cant not work, the system cant be flawed. It just cant. Its not even a matter of it working or not. It doesn't have to "work at it" it just is.

Maybe were trying to rationalise and explain something that just "is". Like we just "are" That's it really. And the point about there needing to be a point......does there have to be a point? Does there have to be a reason? Does there have to be a purpose?

The question raised is pertinent,popular and has been asked for millennia. Its a good question.

This is a good point! Yes I know what you mean about trying to survive. Debts everywhere and not enough to pay and live on.

I have seen it said that we choose to experience that vast collection of choice of experience. I don't see why or who would choose to be depressed, poor, a failure etc...

One explanation from Eli Rook is that we don't know we are God and so we are choosing our experiences through fear and worry instead of hope and anticipation. The interesting thing is, worry and fear is really negative anticipation.

With this in mind anticipation seems to hold the key. Anticipation whether negative or positive seems to be key to experience.

I know as a child and even teen I had much more positive anticipations than I now do. When bills keep pouring in every month and you know you haven't the money it gets harder and harder to have positive anticipation.

You start even having negative anticipations. You know the bills will come, you know you won't be able to afford them, what next they will shut off my electricity, water, gas?

This is not good and lends itself to depression, "What can I do I'm losing everything, I'm a failure!"

So we feel like life is a jungle and we need to survive day by day. This is similar to animals, everyday they have to survive. They have to everyday kill their food and try to avoid being killed for some other animals food.

I just saw some old women shop-lifted at Wallmart. These women never did anything like this in their lives, they had clean records from birth! They were pushed to the point of desperation, they felt like they had to do what they had done to survive. Both have been crying since they were caught saying how stupid it was to do and warning everyone don't do it, it is not worth it! This seems a perfect example of that survive, kill or be killed attitude.

In disasters where there is limited supply, people fight and even kill for their own survival. These being people that are usually good natured that you could trust.

I remember a Twilight's Zone episode where aliens as an experiment took over control of a town. First they cut off all power. No problem a simple black out, but then they turned on power to just one home! Well everyone grew suspicious of the residences of that home! "Hey the Jones have power, why do they have power?" People were storming the doors and demanding an explaination! Of course the Jones had no idea why. That was not good enough they believed it was a cover-up! The aliens then turned off their power and turned on another neighbors power. Everyone including the Jones became suspicious of those neighbors! Before you knew it this happy town became a town of witch hunters looking to kill who was causing this! They all turned against one another out of fear!

This is a good example of that survive at any cost thing that comes over people when they keep expecting fear based outcomes.

So in conclusion I'd say that it is important that we find the answer because the levels we could sink to, we wouldn't like.

Maybe the answer is we don't know we are God. This feels better but has yet to open many doors for me. High points come and go but that constant happiness seems elusive.

the point may be to learn,
to know, that we are the ones
responsible for who and
what we all become,

You see no point in misery because you define success as happiness. But what if someone else chooses this life because they want to experience the challenges and struggles that life can offer?

Think of the times in your life where you achieved something great, something you were proud of. Was it great because it was easy, or was it great because it was difficult but you overcame the difficulty and achieved it anyway?

Think about those people who ultimately go on to achieve the greatest successes in life. Are they typically the ones born with a silver spoon in their mouth, or are they the ones who failed first, lost everything, and had nowhere else to go but up?

Are you more likely to achieve something great if you have nothing to lose?

People who experience suffering are not looking for the positive; they are looking for meaning. Victor Frankl's idea of finding meaning in the midst of extreme suffering is found in his account of an experience he had while working in the harsh conditions of the Nazi concentration camps:

We stumbled on in the darkness, over big stones and through large puddles, along the one road leading from the camp. The accompanying guards kept shouting at us and driving us with the butts of their rifles. Anyone with very sore feet supported himself on his neighbor's arm. Hardly a word was spoken; the icy wind did not encourage talk. Hiding his mouth behind his upturned collar, the man marching next to me whispered suddenly: "If our wives could see us now! I do hope they are better off in their camps and don't know what is happening to us."

That brought thoughts of my own wife to mind. And as we stumbled on for miles, slipping on icy spots, supporting each other time and again, dragging one another up and onward, nothing was said, but we both knew: each of us was thinking of his wife. Occasionally I looked at the sky, where the stars were fading and the pink light of the morning was beginning to spread behind a dark bank of clouds. But my mind clung to my wife's image, imagining it with an uncanny acuteness. I heard her answering me, saw her smile, her frank and encouraging look. Real or not, her look was then more luminous than the sun which was beginning to rise.

A thought transfixed me: for the first time in my life I saw the truth as it is set into song by so many poets, proclaimed as the final wisdom by so many thinkers. The truth - that love is the ultimate and the highest goal to which Man can aspire. Then I grasped the meaning of the greatest secret that human poetry and human thought and belief have to impart: The salvation of Man is through love and in love. I understood how a man who has nothing left in this world still may know bliss, be it only for a brief moment, in the contemplation of his beloved. In a position of utter desolation, when Man cannot express himself in positive action, when his only achievement may consist in enduring his sufferings in the right way - an honorable way - in such a position Man can, through loving contemplation of the image he carries of his beloved, achieve fulfillment. For the first time in my life I was able to understand the meaning of the words, "The angels are lost in perpetual contemplation of an infinite glory.

In any case, a life of suffering without what you consider overcoming that suffering is only meaningless if this physical life is all there is, or if that suffering never has an impact on the world. You never know who you might inspire by suffering, but persevering anyway.

In response to your edit

A quote from Richard Bach's Illusions, the Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah:

"You do everything for a reason, Don?"
"Sometimes."
"Why the movie? Why did you all of a sudden want to see Sundance?"
"You asked a question."
"Yes. Do you have an answer?"
"That is my answer. We went to the movie because you asked a question. The movie was the answer to your question."
He was laughing at me, I knew it.
"What was my question?"
There was a long pained silence. "Your question, Richard, was that even in your brilliant times you have never been able to figure out why we are here."
I remembered. "And the movie was my answer."
"Yes."
"Oh."
"You don't understand," he said.
"No."
"That was a good movie," he said, "but the world's best movie is still an illusion, is it not? The pictures aren't even moving; they only appear to move. Changing light that seems to move across a flat screen set up in the dark?"
"Well, yes." I was beginning to understand.
"The other people, any people anywhere who go to any movie show, why are they there, when it is only illusions?"
"Well, it's entertainment," I said.
"Fun. That's right. One."
"Could be educational."
"Good. It is always that. Learning. Two."
"Fantasy, escape."
"That's fun, too. One."
"Technical reasons. To see how a film is made."
"Learning. Two."
"Escape from boredom..."
"Escape. You said that."
"Social. To be with friends," I said.
"Reason for going, but not for seeing the film. That's fun, anyway. One."
Whatever I came up with fit his two fingers; people see films for fun or for learning or for both together.
"And a movie is like a lifetime, Don, is that right?"
"Yes."
"Then why would anybody choose a bad lifetime, a horror movie?"
"They not only come to the horror movie for fun, they know it is going to be a horror movie when they walk in," he said.
"But why?..."
"Do you like horror films?"
"No."
"Do you ever see them?"
"No."
"But some people spend a lot of money and time to see horror, or soap-opera problems that to other people are dull and boring?..."
He left the question for me to answer.
"Yes."
"You don't have to see their films and they don't have to see yours. That is called 'freedom.'"
"But why would anybody want to be horrified? Or bored?"
"Because they think they deserve it for horrifying somebody else, or they like the excitement of horrification, or that boring is the way they think films have to be. Can you believe that lots of people for reasons that are very sound to them enjoy believing that they are helpless in their own films? No, you can't."
"No, I can't," I said.
"Until you understand that, you will wonder why some people are unhappy. They are unhappy because they have chosen to be unhappy, and, Richard, that is all right!"

According to Jesus, humans suffer because of the scientific principle of ENTROPY. Everything was good in the beginning, then it began to decline in quality. See what he says categorically:

"The kingdom of heaven is like yeast that a woman took and mixed into about sixty pounds of flour until it worked all through the dough." (Mathew 13:33) And it was "new" for some time, then it became "old." (Mathew 13:52) In man's case, this decline in quality comes as a choice.

Hence it is nothing like physical reality is failed--its just pure science--there will again be generation, growth, decay and regeneration...... Cycle will repeat.

"What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun. Is there anything of which one can say, "Look! This is something new"? It was here already, long ago; it was here before our time (Ecclesiastes 1:9, 10; 3:15)

Regarding those people's lives that begin miserably and end miserably--this is not a random happening. Cause precedes the effect; hence their miserable lives have their root in their past--this lives or previous lives. Each soul chooses its family, situation, and continent to work out its karma. Its like people ending up in prisons! Every citizen is aware that prison exists for those who violate laws of the country, yet why millions end up in the prisons? Because they chose some action, whose results are fixed--which no one can change. Hence prison life came as a choice!

See what Jesus taught:

1) Every soul carries within it a sanskar (unique personality traits) of one's own making and acts accordingly.--Mathew 12:35

2) He believed every action (even an unproductive word one utters) has equal and opposite reaction.--Mathew 12:36; 23:12; Luke 6:38.

3) Many will not change their sanskar, hence will repeat their acts in their next birth too.--Luke 16:31 Compare Mathew 11:14; 12:32.

I really don't think anyone has any definite answers. Your questions are well-taken. All we know for sure is that we are born, live and then die. Many of us, like Frankl, try to find some glimmer of hope, meaning, and understanding of this life. In times of trouble, that little light that shines keeps us going as Frankl's vision of his wife and his insight about love did for him. We invent all kinds of systems that will stave off the negativity that we seek to avoid and that will help us make it through rough times. It really is magical thinking in a sense because life will be as it will be, whether it is a life of total joy or total misery. Folks will say that we choose the life we lead before we manifest on this earth. Well, I take issue with that because even if life is continuous why choose suffering? What sense does it make for us to say at the end, I made it through that? What's the point? To be a better Spirit or human being in the next life? Well, you can reach the same result by living a life of prosperity and joy. Positive thinking, law of attraction, reincarnation, belief in God, belief that we are God, and all the other theories are meant to keep us hopeful and moving forward in the face of a life that is so totally unpredictable. We create these various theories to make sense of something (life) that we cannot quite grasp, but really we know that we really don't know anything for sure, except we live at this moment. It seems improbable that we here on this 3rd planet from our sun would have such life, and capable of being conscious of life, which really hangs on such a precarious balance. The living earth can destroy without warning; asteroids can hit the earth and destroy all life; our sun can go supernova and end this life; accidents, heart attacks, strokes can end life instantly. We age and then we all die. We all die. What is the meaning of life? There must be some meaning, we posit. Maybe there is no meaning and life is as it is and that's all it is. So, misery is just one aspect of life. And the human condition is such that we see this, understand, and, if life provides a way, we can choose and do otherwise. Sometimes, we cannot see, don't understand and life does not provide a way and so misery remains. It is always as it is. And it is all good.

I really like your question and it's one that bothers me every moment of my life -- so much so that escapism seems to be the only solution.

Unfortunately the premise is the issue. Humans create meaning in a soulless, purposeless process that began with the big bang for us.

The downside: no intrinsic meaning

The upside: you realize that some of the suffering some people endure is because of concepts and ideas that belong to others. You can choose to reject them!

I feel we are here because 'life' (the energy, the positive, the self, etc.) wants to be ALIVE in a physical form. In order to achieve this, it evolved into many different forms, including our species; humans. Now, since humans are much more aware than other animals, we experience negative emotions more consiously also. It's just part of our species. Perhaps our bigger brain also comes with a bigger ego that separates us from the self also. I think that life was not designed for us and that we just have to cope with how the cooky crumbled. Still, 'life' just wants to live so badly, it does whatever it can. It even evolved to feed on itself. Funny, ain't it? Being here is probably for 'life' what doing magic mushrooms is for us ;) Still, chances are that our species lives the most miserably because we poison each other's thoughts all the time.

I enjoy my human form though, it allows me to try and grasp what is going on. Will probably consider myself a fool when I'm dead for trying to figure out stuff which will be handed to me on a silver platter then, but hey, it's how I enjoy living.

It's relatively.

How do we know that they will always placed on sadness? How do we know that they will always placed on happiness? Even if they died, how do we know their exact situation? It's all subjective, in the sense that based on religion, wisdom and so forth, it could be totally different situation for someone compared to the situation currently.

Rather than prolong our sadness, better we fix it and stay alert. If we couldn't then try to stay on current situation with grateful. Just, if we could do this ... .

The point is: it's relatively and we may judge condition just to alert us that there may be something wrong, but that doesn't have to make ourselves living desperately.

Is physical reality a failed/flawed system? Well we can see it after we die. Don't judge now, it's too early.

here is what you said: But I can't help but notice that a lot, if not most people's lives start off miserably and end miserably.

why is there a empty space in between? is that not the present moment? what are you doing with it? use the time imparted to you wisely.

If those who lead you say to you, 'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty.

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gthlamb.html

you said:physical reality REALLY gets in the way. We're all human, so of course we are going to feel bad in physical reality.

you have a physical body in a physical world that work by the same rule. things grow and change sometime for the worst, but hopefully for the best. the physical body return to the earth and something else will grow. you are a passer-by in this world.

you also said:Anyway, I guess my question is.. Why are things like this? Why do we come into physical reality, and then it seems as though we have to fight for our happiness, contentment, peace? A lot of people literally go through life and achieve nothing they wanted, or feel unfulfilled/horrible at their death; isn't that kind of a waste? What's the point?

things are like this out of our own choice. if you have to fight for something can you be at peace? can you be happy? can you be content? did they really achieved nothing they wanted? or did they achieve something and it was not what they wanted? if they would have been perfect not divided and at peace with them self and other would they have needed to fight? or would they have help each other to help them self and other? being in harmony united at the place of being divided and in chaos.

is there a opportunity to learn something from this and make better choice?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx_B2a6fwdo

I am not one that will leave this world empty.

Let there be light , be the light that you can be, experience and enjoy.

The physical reality may indeed be harsh, even at times, horribly awful and unbearable, as was mentioned about those who lived in places like Auschwitz. There are street people who live in boxes- heck, even citizens all over the world who do not have much more than boxes to dwell in, and filth to drink and no sewers to carry away waste.

The physical reality may indeed be unbearable, even dismal.

What is really sad, though, is to see people who are able-bodied, who have their health and are warm and fed, who choose for whatever reason to be miserable and unhappy. This bothers me so much...Those who choose not to fight, but rather, to lie in their beds and say, "Woe is me. I am ordinary. Woe is me! I thought I was meant for much more, and all I have is this???"

And their loved ones stand by, wondering when they will wake up and see that God is always near - if they ask Him to be. God will and can lift up a heart even in Auschwitz. Angels surround us, waiting to be asked, waiting to help, but they are not asked, they hear no prayers from the lips of these self-pitying people.

Life is not supposed to be easy. Many times, it can be awful. But we can make a garden out of dirt and rocks. We can look to those who love us, and love them back, and feel that love, and feel God in them. We can move forward, holding the hand of our Lord and trusting, trusting, trusting, that all will be well- if not in this life, then the next.

Heaven can be found in the sprouting of a Morning Glory, the last Rose of summer, the glory of a uncovered piece of obsidian. Heaven is everywhere, hidden from all who choose not to see it, choose not to look and enjoy what they do have! There is music to be written, people to be saved, love to be shared, people to be helped through difficult times.

Should we sacrifice the harshness of physical reality not to feel the Love of God? Should we mope and moan, or should we pick ourselves up, and do what we can to help ourselves and each other?

This is what we came for- for Love. We came for Love. Love is worth fighting for, worth stacking grocery shelves for, worth dying for.

No life is mundane or lost to God. None. All return to Him, and find Peace again.

Ponder this, and pray for all those who are much, much worse off than you are.

Many Blessings,

Jai ♥♥♥

"If a child was born in an abusive home, lives a horrible, depressing, abusive life, then years later gets killed horribly, what was the point of all that? It doesn't seem like there would be much to gain out of living a life like that. Why would we choose to live a life like THAT?"

Why are you arguing with creation and the design?

The answer is very simple.. the whole reason we exist and that experience you just named exists.. the reasons it exists is

JUST CAUSE WE CAN!

That's a simple answer I got from bashar.. maybe you don't like it..? but it doesn't matter.. one element your missing is.. that the person who chooses to have this life of MISERY as you described it.. actually chose it HAPPILY from unconditional love vibration of non-physical.. they knew it would be tough.. they new it would be a challenge.. and when they returned home.. they were so PROUD of themselves for doing it.. they were so happy for the experience.. and they had no judgment towards the loved ones.. who played those victimizers to help them create the experience.. It can be hard to understand this answer.. because many humans-spirits are ingrained in belief systems of right and wrong.. (illusions they are) so seeing how they see in non-physical can be difficult.

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"Or worse, an infant comes into the world and then dies just a few weeks later. What was the point of that life? Yes, the life had value, but why was it brought into existence, for it's own sake, if it was just gonna die so soon? This is the type of stuff I'm talking about, but this is more extreme, so still regard the things about people living a miserable life in the beginning and dying miserably and feeling unfulfilled in the end. Same thing, but less extreme."

---

How can you understand the game and design of reality.. if you don't choose to see from it..??

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Do you not see that in this question.. you seem to be approaching this question in JUDGMENT of the answers you do not like.. I don't really think you "like" these answers.. but if you really wish to know..? put your EYES.. your attention into non-physical as best you can.. attempt to feel that unconditional love vibration.. attempt to ask yourself why you would play fable 2.. and choose to play a evil character and slaughter a whole village?

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I mean can you explain to me.. why you can play a character in a game like fallout or fable 2 and you decide to slaughter a whole village.. can you explain to me.. how that is 'fun' for you?

---

But for some of us.. it is.. I killed MacGyver in the original fallout.. I hated that guy :D :P lol

the only satisfactory explanation for this is Reincarnation. When a child is born cripple it feels like its zoo unfair but if you believe in reincarnation and karma then that answers it. its with our own deeds that we sow the seeds of future. So to answer some people having miserable life is law of karma. where in their past lives due to improper actions/thinking this is happening now.

BUT HOLD ON! The GOOD NEWS is you can change that. You don't need to pay attention to karma in the sense that you don't need to accept it. Eastern saints like paramahansa yogananda has said that you fight it with every cell in your body! also you commune with the Divine. Follow cosmic laws that never fail - that is be grateful, be easy and happy, remove bad habits even though its not easy - fight it and keep persistence then Gods Will will back you too in removing these bad habits, be Loving, selfless etc.. when you do these things it can erase bad karma.

he also said india's downfall was to accept karma and thats wrong. I mean the bad karma. you constantly work on being more positive loving, etc. And meditation and similar tools help you in connecting to Divine. EVERYDAY CONNECT TO THE DIVINE - THATS OUR JOB!